UNKNOWN: 0:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 0:04

A lot of people doubt that they will actually be successful. Is it going to be worth their time? And when you unpack that a little bit more and you dig a little bit deeper, what it really is saying is, man, I don't want to be embarrassed or I don't want to feel that feeling of confirmation that I'm not good because I always believed that I wasn't good enough to get this done. And that doubt plays tricks on your minds and it just leaves you exactly where you're at. It leaves you idle. But action is always going to whip anxiety's ass. If you take the action your anxiety will go away. Failures podcast, learn from our failures. Rich, we got a good one today, man. This is one that you requested maybe on our first episode that we should do, and we've been saving it. It's about the doubt monster. The doubt monster is a phrase that I made up to deal with a lot of fucking incredibly stressful situations in my life. And I used to always use it in conversations with you as a friend and someone that I would go to whenever I was in a life crisis. And it's something that I feel like we've been using it for a long time and we would always mention it as this thing that would loom over us whenever we felt paralyzed by a decision or something we wanted to do. So I wanted to start the show off by asking you, when has doubt or the lack of wanting to take action paralyzed you or made you uncomfortable? Or what does doubt monster mean to you in general when you hear it?

SPEAKER_00: 1:35

Man, I fight that motherfucking doubt monster every single day. Man, it's that negative voice in your head telling you you're not good enough, you can't do something, that inner critique, be happy to be here, that negative voice that's like, man, you're not good enough to do this many reps in the gym or buy a house or buy a car or get this job. It's just that voice, man, that you're constantly fighting as a man to suppress like, man, I can't do this. move forward. I can do these things. I fight that motherfucker every single day, bro.

SPEAKER_01: 2:15

Is that why you resonated with it when I brought it up in a conversation one time? It never had a name, right? We've never given it a name.

SPEAKER_00: 2:23

It never had a name. And I remember you saying, bro, that's a doubt monster. What you're feeling, I call it the doubt monster. And I'm like, man, there's other men out there who are definitely fighting that doubt monster, some call it demon, every single day. And we just don't get it a name and we don't really talk about how to suppress that negative voice in your head. So I thought this would be a great topic for us to touch on and hopefully share some ways to suppress that negative noise.

SPEAKER_01: 2:52

Yeah, we should get into some housekeeping for the episode. If this is your first time listening to Failures Podcast, our mantra is learn from our failures so you don't have to. And this episode is a unique one because it's really personal to Rich and I. And Rich is 37, I'm 39 years old. We had an accomplished a lot in our lives. We have so much more that we'd like to accomplish. And it's funny, it doesn't matter how old you get or how quote unquote successful you get or how many times you've slain that monster that is doubt. It always creeps up. And it's funny because I think we still find this topic to be relevant today. I know I do. So I wanted to get to it, but I wanted to wait a little bit further into our catalog of issues we addressed because I'll be honest, I don't feel like I'm fully versed in and saying with the utmost confidence, this is exactly how you get rid of the doubt monster because it still looms in many categories. So I want to set up the table and kind of get into some housekeeping for today's episode. The one thing that I want to make clear to our community and the people that are suffering from analysis paralysis or feeling crippled when it comes to making a decision or a cute girl in your homeroom or your class or your college or your coworker or somebody you see, on your way to work that you want to address, you want to kind of like take action, and that's the best way to put it, in all of those categories. And if you just wait too long, that doubt creeps in and it paralyzes you and you end up not doing anything. I think that's a good baseline idea of what the doubt monster can do to you. That's the current state you're in. The state that I would like our listeners to be in, and I'm hoping that they can get out of this episode is, I don't know how you would see it, Rich, but I would like them to at least be able to identify it i think that's a big step and then once you are able to identify where does that doubt come from and when does it come up at least knowing what steps you can take to minimize it because i don't think you could fully get rid of it so that's just a framework i want to set for our listeners that are thinking why am i listening to this episode we're hoping at the end you can at least have those takeaways and as per usual we'll get into actionable advice at the end of the episode rich and i will go back and forth kind of draft style and uh I'll go back to back on what we found to be as actionable advice throughout the episode. So I'll be taking notes throughout the episode. And then at the end, we'll kind of give a recap. So yeah, Doubt Monster.

SPEAKER_00: 5:20

Yeah, man. Listen, I remember, I can give you an example. This was not too long ago, maybe about two and a half years ago. I was going to an offsite in Spain for the job I was working at. And it was supposed to be an offsite, just all the employees kind of getting together, speaking on different projects. And it was a way to bring a remote company together, enjoy different activities, do scavenger hunts, things like that. And very last minute, my manager pulled out of the trip. He was like, oh, I can't make it, but I need you to give a presentation on risk and security and cybersecurity to the entire company. And bro, this blindsided me because I'm like, well, wait a minute. I didn't go on this trip thinking that I would have to be on stage and give a presentation to 300 people, right? So now the whole entire trip, that's exactly what was in my head was like, man, how am I going to give this presentation? I've never been on stage before. I've never held a microphone before. I've never spoken to this many people, this type of, you know, a live audience, so to speak like this before. And man, that doubt monster started creeping in like a motherfucker. It was just like, why why are you doing this? Started getting, feeling like imposter syndrome. I started saying to myself, like, what is this, your fucking TED Talk? Like, who do you think you are? You know what I mean? It's almost like your mind is

SPEAKER_01: 6:49

working against you.

SPEAKER_00: 6:50

Yeah, yeah, bro. It was like... It's not your

SPEAKER_01: 6:53

friend. It feels like it's not your friend.

SPEAKER_00: 6:55

No, that voice was like, what qualifies you to be on this stage? Why are you even in Spain? Like, what are you doing, you know? Why should these people even listen to you? And man, that doubt monster was loud, bro. For at least two days. that I was prepping for my presentation. Even up to the last five minutes before they called my name to go up on stage to give this presentation, I was nervous wreck. And I remember I wrote down all these notes. I was just kind of going to read off of my phone. And I said, nah, man, I'm not going up there with my phone. I literally locked my phone. I put it down on the table. I just went up and just went off top, off memory, everything that I remembered. I'm like, at the end of the day, I'm the subject matter expert here. You guys are listening to me because you don't know enough about this topic or category or field. So I just spoke on what I knew and it came out organically. It came out great. The presentation was met with applause from everybody who was there. And I sat back down after the presentation and I felt good. And I'm like, damn, I definitely felt like I defeated the doubt monster in that moment because those two to three days where I was prepping for that presentation, man, man, that dial monster was extremely loud in my ear, bro.

SPEAKER_01: 8:12

Where do you think that voice of doubt comes from? And why does it work against you? Like it's in your brain. Why would something in your own brain work against

SPEAKER_00: 8:23

you? Bro, I think naturally it's just fear. It's just that emotion of feeling fear and feeling that inner critique, right? Sometimes it makes you feel like, am I good enough? Should I be on this stage? I We spoke about this on an earlier episode, but I think oftentimes we see ourselves as that young little kid from West New York, New Jersey, who's still trying to figure out how to become a man. But the world looks at us and is like, bro, you are a man. You are a 37-year-old grown man. Justin's a 39-year-old grown-ass man. But inside of you, you still feel like a child or you're not that grown-up that you think you are. So I think that's where it comes from.

SPEAKER_01: 9:11

Yeah, my common belief, and I do want to share on how I came up with the terminology for it. It actually came from watching the movie It, the clown movie It. I want to share that story in a little bit, but I want to get back to what you're saying. I do believe this idea of living in a past version of yourself frames a lot of the way you see yourself currently. If you wore a certain color of lens you see everything in the world through the tint of that lens so if you wore like a blue color tinted lens everything that you see in your world is always seen through that perspective but not everybody sees you through that lens and I think that is something that carries with us throughout our entire lives and I find from just having this conversation with a lot of people it's a lot of family dynamics you know like if you're the younger brother you always have the perspective of being someone that's always trying to show and prove and get the approval of your older brother, older sister. If your mother was very avoidant with you and she didn't show you a lot of love and attention, you tend to have this tendency to always want that validation when you live your life and you're around coworkers or you're around women. You do things that if you don't get that immediate gratification that is like a hole in your life that you've grown up with, you tend to project that into the world. And in those moments of silence, you tend to fill it with these doubts that come from this lens that you see yourself through. And I think that your story is a perfect example of that. If you weren't given those few days in between from the moment you were told you're going to present to hit in the stage, you wouldn't have filled your mind with all that doubt. And I don't know where that comes from for you, but I know the time that you give yourself before you perform the action and the time that you knew you had to do an action, it could paralyze you. That's where a lot of the hesitation comes from and a lot of the negative self-talk comes

SPEAKER_00: 11:08

from. Yeah, that's a great point. And I also feel like the dot monster really only comes out when you're about to level up, right? Oh, great point. Yeah. At that moment, I ended up unlocking a skill that I didn't even know I had, which was like, you can get on a stage, pick up a microphone and do public speaking. You know, you don't have to be, I think I read a statistic that that's like the number one fear for most humans is like public speaking.

SPEAKER_02: 11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 11:37

So, you know, I felt like I I wasn't any different. It's a statistic. Everyone feels this way. Right. But I was like, nah, man, like I got up there and did my thing and I felt, you know, pretty comfortable up there. But I, you know, that was my first time ever doing that. So I feel like I unlocked that skill by just, you know, having to do it. And, you know, the dial monster only really comes out when you're about to level up. And I feel like I leveled up in that moment. It's a skill that I unlocked and I know I could do it again. You know what

SPEAKER_01: 12:07

I mean? I mean, that is, that is, a great story and I'm glad our community gets to hear someone that you've said it on previous episodes public speaking is not something that you always identified yourself with as your strongest skill set sure and not only did you do that public speaking but you also were quick to jump at the opportunity to do a podcast with me and create a platform where you had to speak and you did tell me bro one of the good things that will come from it is that I'm going to get more and more comfortable with hearing my voice editing audio with my voice and getting used to seeing my and hearing myself speak, that falls into that category. What you're saying is like, sometimes that doubt is something you should go towards, because there's probably something you want to conquer there. There's probably something you should conquer.

SPEAKER_00: 12:49

Yeah. And, you know, even when we talk about this podcast, one of the things that made me feel comfortable in doing it was, and I told you this before, when we were kind of like in the idea phase of this brand and this podcast, it was like, man, I want to share information. I I want to speak to like my younger self. I want to provide value and I don't know how to do it. I was always afraid of like going on X or Twitter and like posting things and then having that information get back to me. You know what I mean? Like if I ever decided to run for a political office or just have like the censor army come after me because I tweeted the wrong thing, you know, I felt limited to post something on Facebook or on Instagram because maybe an employer would see it. I'm like, man, I just, I didn't feel comfortable just staying quiet all these years and having all this information that I've gathered over the last 37 years and not being able to share it. And I'm not saying, like we always say on this podcast, we're not gods, we're not gurus, but we have lived through some shit. And I think it's worth sharing because as we both identified, bro, some of these young men are lost in the sauce. They really are.

SPEAKER_01: 14:00

And one thing that you made me think about is everybody claims that they know the path. Information is more readily available than ever. Literally, in history. There has not been this much valuable knowledge accessible in the speed of 10 seconds, let alone a millisecond in one Google search or one LLM chat GPT query. Everybody claims to know the path, but it's still funny to me how few people will take the hike and actually do the thing that will get them to the top of the mountain. And I think that's what we're saying here is part of the hesitation has to be this idea that you're stopping yourself from climbing the mountain. Everybody claims to know the path, but few climb the mountain. Why is that? I believe it has to do with doubt. A lot of people doubt that they will actually be successful. Is it going to be worth their time? And when you unpack that a little bit more and you dig a little bit deeper, what it really is saying is, man, I don't want to be embarrassed or I don't want to feel that feeling of confirmation that I'm not good because I always believed that I wasn't good enough to get this done. And And that doubt plays tricks on your minds and it just leaves you exactly where you're at. It leaves you idle. But action is always going to whip anxiety's ass. If you take the action, your anxiety will go away. It would depreciate a lot more because I could imagine that feeling you felt when you got off the stage. I'm sure the doubt monster wasn't big and still looming over you after that point. You probably felt good about yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 15:38

Yeah. And like you mentioned earlier, this is not something that ever goes away. I feel like we all fight the doubt monster on a daily basis. And it's about sort of suppressing that negative inner critique to as low volume as possible because it's always going to be there.

SPEAKER_01: 15:58

Can you describe that feeling that you felt? Because I think what would be helpful to our community is understanding that maybe the idea of going to the gym and moving weights around or maybe the idea of talking to the girl that you've been very hesitant to just speak to, not ask on a date, just start a conversation. Can you share what that feeling feels like after you leave the gym or after you shot your shot and the conversation went well and she didn't get up and slap you or call you a scumbag for trying to ask her for a pen or in your situation after you got off stage?

SPEAKER_00: 16:33

Yeah. Well, even before then, right? What prevents you from doing all of those things? It's fear of failing. It's going up to that girl and getting rejected and feeling like you failed. It's going up on that stage to do a presentation or public speaking, stumbling your words and feeling like everyone's laughing at you. That fear of failure is so powerful, bro. And that shit feeds the doubt monster. That feeling that you get on the other side when you do shoot your shot with the girl or you do go up on stage and you do that presentation and you nearly and you go sit back down with the girl's phone number or you go sit back down after an applause, that's the victory lap, bro. That's the satisfaction that you get from breaking through that fear, breaking through that feeling of potentially failing and being like, nah, bro, I could do it. As long as I break through that fear of failure.

SPEAKER_01: 17:35

Now, I want to get into story time a little bit because I want to explain to our community how I developed the phrasing, the doubt monster. It was during the pandemic. there were always three things that I would think about and I would psych myself out from doing that I would always make an excuse for. It would be like, when I get enough free time, I'm going to spend more time with my family. That's important to me, but I just can't do it right now. I'm really busy. When I get more free time, I'm really going to get good at fixing my credit and taking care of my personal finances. I'm just really busy right now. I'm in my grind mode. And the third one was like, when I get free time, I'm going to take care of my fitness. I'm I'm going to get healthy. It's just, I don't have the time to go to the gym and eat right. And that was all during the pandemic, leading up to the pandemic. And you, just like me, just like everybody listening right now, we had no idea what the fuck was going to happen once we heard that the world was being shut down for a few days. I thought it was going to be quick. As time went on, I started realizing I had way more time on my hands. And I was in a one bedroom apartment in Edgewater, New Jersey. And I had no excuse not to do the three things that were weighing me down and constantly looming over me that would give me this anxiety. Anytime somebody would talk about finances or saving, it would make me anxious because I would think to myself, damn, I don't know anything about this. Let me just change the subject or let me joke about it so I don't have to talk about something that I know I'm not good at. And the same for fitness and the same for the other thing. And I think during that time, the movie It had come out, the clown movie It, and I watched it. one night I remember watching the movie and at the end spoiler alert it's this giant clown that they kill by saying things to it and this giant clown would get smaller and smaller and smaller and it went from this intimidating thing with like fangs and it would like it just got reduced to this very playful looking like what's the little dolls that everybody has the Lelobo dolls it looked like one of those it was like a little animation doll and it was adorable

SPEAKER_00: 19:44

yeah

SPEAKER_02: 19:45

it

SPEAKER_01: 19:46

still looked like itself and in the movie i remember watching it thinking damn that's how i feel whenever i'm anxious or i have doubt about something i want to do that i know i have to do and i don't take action and it hit me action is the anecdote that kills the doubt And every time I got up in the morning, I would think, okay, I have to do one thing, just one thing today that would move me in the right direction for these two. It was really fitness and finances and my family. The family part came easy because I was close to home and I had a lot of free time. The other two, I would take one small step every day. And what I would find out is right before I would go to bed and I wouldn't have AirPods in my ear or headphones on or music playing or friends around, I would have And that motherfucker would just pop up. The doubt monster would just loom over me. And he would say some really fucked up things to me that were a representation of who I was. And the only defense I had at that moment, I would think of the movie It. And I would think to myself, yeah, but I'm taking action. I'm doing what I can. And I would have this dialogue, but the only defense I had when I was laying down, I would get anxious. I would want to get up and do something. And I would think to myself, no, I'm going to get a good night's sleep and I'm going to get to what is urgent. early as possible in the morning you'll see motherfucker like you can't keep popping up right before I go to bed when my mind is idle and I'm trying to get some good sleep and that doubt and that anxiety kicks in and it paralyzes me in that moment and it's funny I thought I was alone on that and then when I would tell people about it I think 100% of the people that I've shared that with have all said the same thing oh yeah I have that with my grandmother who passed away and I never got a chance to speak to her I have that with my daughter my brother would be like oh Sometimes I think my daughters hate me or my nephew would be like, oh, I feel like I'm not enough for the family. And it's these weird fucking narratives that start spinning up in your brain that live in your mind rent free. It's like this crazy chimpanzee just fucking going crazy in your mind. And you just want to yell like, shut up, shut up. I just want to go to sleep. And that was crazy. the beginning of the Doubt Monster. I was able to label it. And as I shared it with my friends, it was funny because it had this funny, cute name, the Doubt Monster. But it seems to have been the perfect description of something that a lot of people have. And I just want to know from you, what is it that makes it so relatable? What is it about that phrasing and that process that you were able to identify with?

SPEAKER_00: 22:25

Yeah. I mean, listen, we often joke that we're going to turn this concept into a children's book. And if you think about it-

SPEAKER_01: 22:33

Shit, it ain't a joke. We're going to

SPEAKER_00: 22:36

do it for sure. Yeah. But if you think about a child, right? This stems as early as adolescence, right? Even as a young child, you're operating with fear and doubt. I'm looking at my one-year-old daily, right? She's afraid to walk. She's holding onto the walls, holding onto railings. And it's the fear of her failing and falling that she needs to overcome. She She's maybe a week or two away from fully being able to walk, but she just, I'm trying to teach her, like, you just got to let go. You know what I mean? Like, your feet are working, you're standing up, you just got to let go. Easier said than done, though. I mean, sure. Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 23:16

She's looking at you like, you're fucking walking. Yeah, easy for you to say. You've never had to fall every time you tried to walk.

SPEAKER_00: 23:24

Yeah, for sure. Now that we've been going through it, I'm like, man, this kind of makes me feel like, Yeah, I agree. myself for those two days so I rehearsed I researched I looked for key words that I wanted to say and I think that preparedness ultimately led to me doing a good job but it all stemmed from the doubt of can I do a good job so you know maybe we should go down that rabbit hole a little bit because it's not all bad especially like I gave you an example too like if you go to the gym and you're looking at some weights and you're about to bench and you're like damn can I bench you know 185 can I bench 200 220 that doubt will spark curiosity and you know you're going to attempt it if you're daring enough to to fight the doubt you know you

SPEAKER_01: 24:50

said the gym thing a few times I can't say I specifically relate to the doubt monster there even though I get the point that you're making unpack that a little bit more for yourself so you're saying you approach a and your mind is telling you now you can't do this yeah but your adrenaline and the relationship you have with going to the gym enough you're like no I've conquered I can conquer this I've done this before is that what you're saying

SPEAKER_00: 25:16

yeah exactly I'm listening to the doubt monster shitting on me telling me I can't do a certain set and I'm like alright cool watch me yeah so it's kind of like this this battle against yourself so to speak and that's what inner voice is at the end of the day right like it's it's you versus you i love

SPEAKER_01: 25:33

that i think the chip on the shoulder part is what i relate to i have a different process you know like sure you've known me for a long time my family says this about me if you want to get justin to do something tell him he can't do it and it's like a trick and right i'm almost as predictable as a dog with snacks like the dog knows you're trying to trick it with a snack

SPEAKER_02: 25:55

yeah yeah

SPEAKER_01: 25:56

but i'm gonna get tricked every time and i love that i have that malfunction in my brain Because to your point, I let the doubt drive me. So where I feel inadequate, where I feel like I can't do something, I almost let that internal dialogue get me going. So I'm like, oh yeah, motherfucker, you think I can't do that? You think I can't save X amount of dollars by this month? You think I can't accomplish this goal? You think I can't live without you? I have that internal dialogue and I've gotten really good at just moving making it this battle between serena williams versus serena williams where i'm smashing the tennis ball a one direction to be like you can't do it and then i'm like all right motherfucker watch me and i'm going back and forth and i love that and when i spin that up enough in my brain and i have enough caffeine and i get enough good sleep i really think i could do anything so i let the doubt drive me so i think that's what you're saying but just in a different way i embrace the fear you know i give the fear a name i'm like all right this is what i'm scared of, cool. This is the fucking tree that I'm going to chip down for the next six months. And that may not be helpful, but I think that's more of like an end result for somebody who does experience doubt. You may not be there yet where you've gotten this healthy relationship of seeing the enemy that is doubt and being like, oh, I've seen you before, motherfucker. Stay right there. I'm going to prepare for you. And then knowing how to attack it. And then that might be some 200, 300 level, but I do love the framing that you gave that, Rich. You do have to let the doubt drive you. And I think the gym metaphor is a good one, for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 27:38

Yeah, and it's about striking that balance. I think we spoke about this on an earlier episode where we were talking about how important it is to be in tune with your emotions and what you're feeling. And this is no different, right? When you're facing doubt and fear and anxiety, those feelings could work positively for you or negatively for you. And you kind of have to... Modify yourself and your decision making based on which one is right for that particular moment or situation. So I agree, man. I feel like the doubt monster is not always your enemy, sort of like that bouncer in the door that's kind of like preventing you from getting to the next level. Sometimes you just got to break that motherfucker down and get through.

SPEAKER_01: 28:23

But I like it. And I do want to get into actionable advice. The section that we get into where Rich and I try to go back and forth on what we think would be helpful to our community. Again, we're not a guru's show where we're going to say, do these 10 things and your life is guaranteed to change. I don't think life or these problems are that simple. We do like packaging this at the end of the show because we find our community does appreciate that they can shut off the podcast and at least have some sort of beginning of a roadmap to start their journey. But it's always going to start with you. And I think this specific episode about the doubt monster, because it is something that Rich and I still deal with. It is something that still paralyzes us to this day. I have to say the best piece of actionable advice is ironic. It's taking action and creating proof of concept. And I know that sounds basic and bullshit, but the only thing that can conquer something that looms over you, it's almost like a bully. The lack of proof and the lack of action is what's allowing this doubt to still dominate your brain. And that to me is actionable advice number one. No matter what it is, just take a very small step in the direction of that doubt. And to your point, Rich, it's not a bad thing. When the doubt presents itself, it's probably your body or something telling you this is what you really want. That's why you feel this opposite pull towards the thing you want. It's not going to be easy, but you have to take action and you have to give yourself a little bit of proof so you can build some confidence.

SPEAKER_00: 29:55

Yeah, I love that. Taking action is extremely important. My actionable advice would just be to name the voice, I feel like it's very easy for you to confuse whether it's you talking or the doubt monster talking. And you need to kind of conceptualize that in your brain. Like that's not me. That's the doubt monster talking. And I feel like once you identify who is talking in your brain, it's easier to sort of fight that doubt. That's great.

SPEAKER_01: 30:23

Yeah. I mean, it's such a weird thing. That is where I think this show wants to be specialized, but I think we like to keep everything very topical, almost like a conversation you can have with your big brother or a family member who is not like a psychology major or someone that has read every book and watched every YouTube video. We try to keep our conversations a bit more topical so they have a human element to it. But I do think, Rich, that's something that if you had a free time, it's worth zooming in a little bit deeper because something spooky about this idea that you present yourself as a person in real life like me talking to you right now and then this fan that's constantly running in the back of your mind that is not working in your favor is just like constantly talking shit to you or saying things like oh why did that girl look at you like that like she probably hates the way you're dressed I knew you shouldn't wear this shirt today like people never give you compliments on your shirt and then you start thinking about your friend you're like oh when I go out with Eddie he always gets a compliment maybe I should get a shirt like that it's crazy how your brain could just fucking go into this insane whirlwind of negative thoughts right before the lady at Wendy's is like, hello, are you going to order anything? And you're like, oh shit. You're like, oh yeah, let me get the... And then you order something. And in your mind, you're like, fuck, that lady hates me too. And you walk away and it's almost like this fucking cloud that just goes everywhere with you. I feel like I'm oversharing. This might just be my brain. But the more I say things like this, I find that more people experience this and you're saying be able to be like a dispatcher from your brain to your own mind to your mouth where you can be like oh that's rich oh that's rich as fucking doubt that's a doubt monster talking now

SPEAKER_00: 32:15

yeah 100% I'm not a fucking scientist but I would imagine that there's a level of distinction between like you your brain your conscious and your subconscious and these are just like all either in conflict or each other or in unison depending on and how you kind of train yourself to think. And it could be your...

SPEAKER_01: 32:35

No, I don't want to mention something we talked about off air. You don't have to say the story, but think about your son in that situation where he was trying to be cooler with someone that was taking advantage of him just so he can get leverage in the next phase of his life, which would be high school.

SPEAKER_02: 32:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:51

And he's in middle school now, right?

SPEAKER_02: 32:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:53

And he justified his action, but I'm saying take a step further. Again, I love how you framed it. We're not fucking scientists, but... We're just two dudes that talk through a lot of these regular life things. And it has to be something so common, even for a young man like your son, that his world is this big and he's probably dealing with that too. Like in his mind, he wants to be accepted. So he has all these like mental justifications happening. And a lot of it probably comes from doubt of not wanting to be accepted or not being accepted.

SPEAKER_00: 33:24

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I have another actionable advice. I think oftentimes when we think of some hard things. We oftentimes look at the problem holistically, like just one big problem. And I think breaking the sort of scary task into smaller, actionable items. Damn, you stole one of mine.

SPEAKER_01: 33:45

I was definitely

SPEAKER_00: 33:46

going to get that one. Yes, perfect. Now that we know that's

SPEAKER_01: 33:49

good advice because we both had it on our list.

SPEAKER_00: 33:52

Yeah, that's good. But I think that's a really good way to fight that doubt monster. It's like, you know, going back to the public speaking example, I was in fear of the entire action of just public speaking. Then I broke it down into like, all right, well, just make sure you hold the microphone correctly. Make sure you don't trip when you walk up on stage. Make sure your shirt is ironed before, you know what I mean? Just so you can get into that

SPEAKER_01: 34:19

flow, that rhythm, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:20

Yeah, make sure you're caffeinated. It was all these micro actions that I took prior to hopping on that stage that I feel like made the sort of scary moment now so scary because I felt in that moment because of the micro actions compounded that I felt prepared in that moment. So that would be my next action. And

SPEAKER_01: 34:42

it is a positive momentum. There is something about just ironing the shirt, putting on cologne, getting a haircut, getting to the date location early, finding parking early, sitting in your car, listening to music that gets you motivated or talking to a friend before you go and on your first date, there is something about psyching your brain out by doing a few positive things in a row that once you kind of get into the main thing that gives you the most doubt, it kind of eases you into it. I do love that. I do love that framework that you shared. I do want to say something that is a compliment to that point of actionable advice. A wise man once told me, Justin, what's the quickest way to eat a steak? I thought it was the stupidest fucking question in the world. I was like, I don't know. Do you blend it? What are you trying to trick me he's like no there's only one way you got to eat it one bite at a time like this then you can't that's not a that's not something you could just take out in one fucking swoop

SPEAKER_02: 35:41

yeah

SPEAKER_01: 35:41

another one for the more metaphorically challenge what's the quickest way to chop down an oak tree it's just one axe hit at a time you just got to continuously keep chipping away at it keep chopping at it and i know a lot of this advice feels rudimental but what rich was saying that i want to add to my actionable advice is those things complement each other and they create, like you said, they compound and create this positive idea of who you are. Like I said before, proof in action. It starts giving you an identity of like, oh, I'm not someone that can't public speak. I'm someone that's learning and I'm getting better. Just that little frame flip could do a lot for somebody that feels like they have this paralyzing anxiety or doubt. It just gets you in a good rhythm. It gets you moving in the right direction. So I love that. Win the day, win the hour, win the minute. Just keep doing things that are positives plus ones in the direction that you want to move in. And you'll notice this over time, Rachel. We've talked about this on a personal level. It's insane the things that we thought we weren't capable of when we look back at them and we actually could see current day that we not only are capable, but we were better than what we thought we would be. That's a wild way to look at it, but you could only look at the past and laugh at it Once you've kind of taken the steps the day that you were paralyzed by what you thought you couldn't do. Yeah. I know that's a bit of a word combo there, but I hope it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00: 37:10

No, no, it does. And that reminds me of this like narrative that we we tell the stories of ourselves, of who we are. So oftentimes you end up doing something incredible and you end up looking back and you're like, damn, I shouldn't have been fearful. I accomplished this. But you look at your peers and they're like, yeah, bro, like we knew you could do it, right? So it's always interesting how other people view you. And that was actually my next point. It's just talk it out. Share your doubt with friends, a coach, a mentor. I oftentimes, I feel like all my most major life decisions, I've always spoken to someone that I trust. And usually, I mean, usually your circle will always reaffirm your doubts. That's what they're there to do. That's why you go to them. But I feel like, Definitely have those people that give it to you straight, that don't sugarcoat shit, that you trust their judgment, that you trust how they view you and they know sort of like what you're made of. And I remember two years ago before I moved into the luxury apartment, like I called you and I was like, yo, I know you lived in these buildings before. Like I'm thinking about renting out my house and moving to this building. What do you think I should do? You think it's the right move? And I had a lot of doubt in me. Luxury buildings are very, very expensive and you're about to enter a whole different lifestyle of just expenditures and yeah it's just a whole different lifestyle and you know you gave me the rundown you were like bro if you're looking for a less complicated lifestyle not having to mow the fucking lawn not having to do all these house chores like that might be the right move for you

SPEAKER_01: 38:50

also also I know you have people who love you that listen but if you want to get back to pimping you got to focus on pimping and I mean getting in the gym, focusing on rich, getting healthy. You can't do that if you're fixing the roof, landscaping, taking care of your kid, and then you want to bring some beautiful women in your life. No, you got to focus on women because if you're in the mode of dating and getting back out there, you got to minimize a lot of shit and focus on what's going to make you a worthy candidate. At some point, they're going to give a fuck that your lawn is mowed, but right now they want to make sure you look healthy you can help provide and you're someone that's stable you look handsome you wear deodorant you wear cologne your house is clean I think that's more important so that's where that advice came from like if you can keep the main thing the main thing you can't be doing 15 things at once and at that time you were just trying to get back on your feet you were paying more to size down but you wanted a different experience

SPEAKER_00: 39:54

yeah and you know I consulted people that I trust like you you know friends my brother. And that's important. You got to talk to people that know you, people that care about you, people whose advice you appreciate. It's very important in helping you minimize that sort of doubt that you're feeling before you sort of take a major life decision.

SPEAKER_01: 40:19

You know, the mentorship is important. And it's funny, we never really brought up that topic. And there probably should be an episode dedicated to that. It's something I'm really big on. It's something that I know that we lean on each other for it's not a mentorship but it's definitely a brotherhood where we go to each other there's different categories in life that you have become a master in and I adore you for and I will always go to you for like second opinion and obviously same goes for me but I think beyond mentorship one thing that I see in our community a lot that it's a generational thing it's not something that I really suffered from I was very social in school I've always been a very social person but it's this this idea of isolating yourself and trying to solve the problem in a vacuum and not going to people that have done these things before in your circle. And I just want to add that to your point. Friends, family, teachers, ex-co-workers. I think that's something you say you've done before where you talk to people in your life that kind of remove that doubt from you and they let you know like, oh no, you've always been really good at that. Why would you be worried about that? You're thinking to yourself, really? You think I'm good? And just hearing something like that from somebody you love that you know knows you can be enough to like move you in the right direction and this little problem that I'm going to identify probably in every episode is that for whatever reason men under 30 love to isolate and they want to think their ways through problems before they address the problem and the phrase has been said you can't think your way across the bridge you have to walk across the bridge and I find that for whatever reason this fucking generation of analysis three Research, double research, chat GBT. It's like you're buried in information and insights, but you haven't done the thing yet. So I want to couple your advice with that advice. You can't think your way across the bridge. You have to get around people. You have to get around the thing. You can't just sit at home and try to figure it out from home. It doesn't work that way. The best players in the world in any sport didn't fucking do it by watching videos at home. You got to go out and play the sport. You got to be amongst people. people so you can see that friction and that resistance on and find out what your strengths and weaknesses are. That shit just pisses me off. The same point every episode pisses me off because I go through the comments and I'm like, these motherfuckers trying to figure out life in their room. It's not going

SPEAKER_00: 42:45

to happen. Nah, I agree with you, but let me pose a caveat. I do feel like if you are going to spend a little bit of time with yourself, it should be sort of visualizing success.

SPEAKER_01: 42:58

And not watching porno for sure.

UNKNOWN: 43:00

I know.

SPEAKER_01: 43:01

If you're going to spend some time by yourself, block all the porn

SPEAKER_00: 43:05

sites. Get off Instagram. And I don't mean days and weeks and hours. I mean, take five to 10 minutes out of your day and visualize what success looks like of something that you have doubt about or you're in fear about. I've figured out that, man, visualizing success and the end result has helped me tremendously. But to your point, don't just dwell in and think that you're going to think your way out of solving a problem. There is that balance. So I don't want to say to not fully isolate yourself. I feel like you should spend time with yourself to figure out the problem. Just don't spend days and weeks at a time because that's not going to do it. No, Rich, think about it. The episode

SPEAKER_01: 43:50

is built around this idea of how do you conquer doubt? Or at the very least, how do you make doubt smaller so it's not crippling you to take action or to do things that you know you have to do that are going to... You know that if you take care of these things, they're going to improve your life. We have a generation of people, us included, that can sit home all day and talk about the thing they're going to do, watch about the thing they're going to do, tweet about the thing they're going to do, TikTok the thing they're going to do, start a group chat about the thing they're going to do, create a website for the thing they're going to do, and you know what happens? They never actually get around to doing the thing they have to do. And that is what fucks me up because I do realize that paralysis of getting too much information is what stops a lot of people from addressing the doubt that's in their mind. Sometimes you got to jump in the water and figure out how you're going to swim. And I think even in our friendship, you're the more pro-action person versus if it was up to me, I would have been setting up the business plan for failures forever. And what was your immediate advice? This is a true story. I call the rich with a whole different business idea, maybe like a little bit different than what we're doing now. And you said to me before it was named failures. This is how the name failures came up. This should be timestamped and archived. You said, I love it, bro. Can't wait to start failing. And you hung up. And I was just like, wait, that's the name of our fucking platform. I can't wait to start failing. I have such a benefit in my life to have a friend and a business partner like you that already knows. Oh, if you're going to get in a ring with a heavyweight champion in in MMA, you're probably going to get punched in the face a few times. For sure. So I'm like, yo, I want to be an MMA champ. You're like, well, bitch, get a mouthpiece and some shin guards because get ready to get fucked up because that's what comes with getting to whatever it is that you want to become as a fighter. And you skipped past the part of like, you didn't say like, yo, Justin, let's do more research. Yo, Justin, let's put another plan together. You were like, sounds good to me. Sounds like you have a vague idea of what you want to do. It makes sense on surface let's get in the water and let's figure it out if we could swim and if not at the very least let's doggy paddle until we start developing a nice little you know rhythm until we and here we are bro we're at episode what what you said it earlier we're on paper episode 9 10 but where are we in terms of

SPEAKER_00: 46:17

real life yeah we probably recorded over 20 episodes only only a few i've seen the the light of day

SPEAKER_01: 46:23

50 plus hours of content and here we are we still sound like shit but you know what we're in the soup figuring it out We're not fucking making a list of all the stuff we got to get at the grocery store.

SPEAKER_00: 46:35

Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_01: 46:36

Again, I'm going to have one of these moments every episode because I could see it as clear as day. I'm like, man, if they only got over this part, they would be able to move faster and further much quicker. They would conquer their doubt and become who they want to become. And that's really the thing holding a lot of these guys back. So love that point you made. I do have another one that I've been dying to get to.

SPEAKER_00: 46:59

Yeah, let's hear

SPEAKER_01: 47:00

it. There was one last piece of action advice that I want to get to before we're wrapped up, and it's my favorite one. No one is thinking about you as much as you think they're thinking about you. Here's a challenge for everybody listening. How many people you think wake up in the morning the minute their eyelids open? Don't grab your phone. Just think about this. I wonder how many people woke up today thinking, damn, I wonder if Rich is okay. I wonder if Rich is doing good. I hope he has money in his bank account and his rent is paid and and his insurance is paid for and his cell phone is paid for. He got food for his family. Rich, think about it. How many people you can count on your hand that woke up this morning and thought about that before they thought about themselves?

SPEAKER_00: 47:43

Zero. One, maybe. My mom.

SPEAKER_01: 47:46

You get my point? Maybe, right?

SPEAKER_00: 47:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 47:49

The human who birthed you got a maybe. Why is that? Because we are selfish. We're just selfish creatures and that's okay, bro. It's not wrong with that. But nobody wakes up in the morning thinking, man, I bet Eddie can't bag that girl in his fucking third period class because he's such a weirdo. You really think people are thinking about you and they're not. And I think that is a big part of the doubt monster is this idea that we have of ourselves as because we ruminate in our brains about who we are, who we are not, who we used to be. How does the world see us? And the truth is, bro, nobody's thinking about you as much as you think they're thinking about you. And once you kind of get over that hump, it makes life a little bit more free. Because when you enter the world with this confidence and grace that like, hey, you know what? Nobody's really thinking about me, so let me take a shot. Let me see if I can change my life. It helps because it deals with a lot of the phobia that people have this perceived notion of who you are. Most people don't know who you are. And They won't know until you show up. So show up. That one is a big one of me.

SPEAKER_00: 48:50

I love it. So how do we summarize this good and evil doubt monster? We hate you, but you're a necessary evil. There has to be a way for us to just kind of summarize this motherfucker into one depiction. Because we need it, but we hate it. We hate it when it doesn't work in our favor, but we need it. when we need motivation?

SPEAKER_01: 49:17

I'll tell you from personal experience. You mentioned something that I should have said in the intro. First, you got to be able to name it. You got to be able to identify it. That's number one, for sure. It is a positive because only you know in your own mind what it is that you want to become or what you feel like is holding you back or what you, this version of yourself that you can see in your mind but you don't know how to get there. That doubt comes from that and once you can identify Only you know what freezes you up, what gets you nervous. So you have to name it first. And on the other side of being frozen by the doubt, there's this imagination and this dream of what you want the outcome to be. Who do I want to be at the end of this? I think you have to romanticize that. You have to really live in that thought of like, man, if I did start saving a little bit of money, I can move out of my mom's house and maybe I can have friends come over. over and build a social life that is not plagued or paralyzed by my three sisters who I live with and my mom. You have to start building out that map, but dream of the end result to the point where you can look at this thing that's stopping you. It's funny, I was thinking of a meme of a toothpick holding a door back and being like, damn, I can never get out of here. And all you got to do is push a little bit and it'll break that toothpick. That's how I see doubt. Because what's on the other side is everything you dream of becoming, you want to become, you know you're capable of, but you're letting this little punk-ass toothpick stop you from being great because depending on the lighting, it looks like this big monster, but it's all depending on the lighting. Your fears are only dependent on your perspective. So if you look at it a little bit different and you become fascinated with who you can become, I think it makes that first step, that doubt, less horrifying. So to your point, man, you got to name it and you got to know, okay, if I conquer this What do I become? And I think constantly thinking of the end result will help you take action. Because while you're taking action, you start improving and you start seeing it. So huge summary for our listeners.

SPEAKER_00: 51:26

Man, I love it. I couldn't have said it better myself. I think there it is, man. The doubt monster.

SPEAKER_01: 51:32

As you can tell, Rich, I'm still struggling

SPEAKER_00: 51:34

with it. It's okay. It's okay. Because when I was just thinking, I'm like, I think this is going to be like a part two, three, four. We might need a doubt monster post- 40 years old, Rich and Justin. It doesn't go away. It doesn't go away. And there's somebody out there listening, fighting the doubt monster right now as they're listening to this podcast. And all we want to let you know is that you're not alone, man. You're not alone. And hopefully we shared some tips that will help you make that inner voice smaller and just use that doubt, that fear and anxiety for good, not for evil, for the lack of a better word.

SPEAKER_01: 52:10

I do want to sign off. I know you've been employed and you've been told by everybody who works on our podcast. Rich has to do the call to action at the end. Very important. So I do want to say this though. I do want to say this. In the comment section, I want everyone to be honest and drop what is the biggest doubt that you want to conquer. And Rich, this wasn't planned, but I want to go back and forth with you. Is there a doubt that you could think of right now that at 37, if you don't address it, it looms over you? I have one. I could start.

SPEAKER_00: 52:38

Yeah. Let's hear yours first.

SPEAKER_01: 52:40

Well, my doubt monster is this idea that one of the times I won't be a good family man. I've dedicated so much of my life to being like a free nomadic career forward, get the bag by any means necessary. I've been in a few relationships, but not one as serious as the one I'm in now. And I'm like hesitant to say it, feel vulnerable saying it, but my biggest fear and one of my greatest doubts is that I won't be a good father. I won't be a good family man. And yeah, I don't know how to address that. And every time I think about it, I want to put it away quickly because even though I just gave advice, I can't even frame that advice in a way that's like, man, I guess I'll get there when I get there. But it does bother me a lot when I think about it. I do have this old idea of who I was before and the family I came from.

SPEAKER_00: 53:33

That's real.

SPEAKER_01: 53:33

Yeah. Not a lot of successful models in that world. So I'm operating in a world that's still downloading as I take steps forward. I can't even see what's ahead. And it does. It does keep me up sometimes.

SPEAKER_00: 53:46

That's real, bro. That's very real. For me, I think it's just, I live in doubt of not feeling like I haven't reached my full potential and what that looks like. I

SPEAKER_01: 53:57

can see that. I can see that.

SPEAKER_00: 53:59

Is Rich ever going to build that company that's worth 50 million and exits in major fashion? We're building

SPEAKER_01: 54:05

it right now, bro. We're building it right now. Fuck you mean?

SPEAKER_00: 54:08

Yeah, for sure. I mean, but that keeps me up at night because I know I don't want to be 40, 50, 60, years old and not forgiving myself for not at least

SPEAKER_01: 54:19

trying

SPEAKER_00: 54:19

to reach sort of the pinnacle of the mountain. I know it's just going to bother me, bro. How

SPEAKER_01: 54:22

do you imagine it? You just imagine it with IVs in your nose. You're old and you're like, I never did that thing. I

SPEAKER_00: 54:29

imagine myself in my dad's bed like, damn, I hope my kids got enough money in the bank account.

SPEAKER_01: 54:34

Yeah, my grandson is pulling up to see me at the hospital and I'm like, why are you wearing sandals? He's like, great grandpa our family didn't have enough money because you failed us so we all wear sandals now i'm on my bed like god damn it you couldn't even get a pair of air forces what the fuck

SPEAKER_00: 55:00

my my last words are like here take this usb it's the last episode of failures we're done you gotta do the call to

SPEAKER_02: 55:09

action

SPEAKER_00: 55:11

hey man listen listen by now it's been a couple episodes the feedback has been incredible just I feel like we're you know we're building this in real time we're getting better episode by episode the feedback has been amazing if you're listening to this on Apple please rate the podcast please leave a comment if you're listening to it on Spotify also rate the podcast there and give us feedback man we're definitely all ears for new ideas new topics and we're also planning to bring some listeners up here to chop it up with us so looking forward to that

SPEAKER_01: 55:44

Yeah. If you guys are interested in doing one-on-one session with me or Rich, no cost, totally free. We want to get to know our listeners better. You know, it works for both of us. We get a better understanding of who's listening. And then we also get an opportunity to meet you guys. The goal is not to have millions and millions of views that lead to nothing. We're actually trying to help our community. So anybody has topic ideas or, you know, they want to get on a quick Zoom with us, talk to us one-on-one, give us feedback. Or if you have topic ideas, I think that's a big one, Rich. Yeah. Yeah. Failures podcast. Learn from our failures. We'll be back next week.

SPEAKER_00: 56:19

Yes, sir. Peace.