SPEAKER_01: 0:03

How do I contribute to the company's greater goal? Once you could reverse engineer all that, you can realize how non-valuable you are or how valuable you could potentially be. If you don't know any of that, you are quite literally standing in front of Chinese checkers for the first time trying to beat a Chinese checkers master at a game. You're never gonna get what you want when you don't know what the fuck you're doing or what anybody else wants. If you don't pay attention to what's going on and what value you contribute, you don't know who you are and where you stand in the chessboard. Today we're talking about navigating nine of five politics and traps in the workplace. Also, avoiding being the invisible employee. It's a problem for young men right now that go invisible in the workplace. You might be this guy, and if you are this guy, stay tuned. You're the guy who works really hard but is constantly overlooked in the workplace. Rich, I'm seeing something that's really pissing me off. Good dudes, smart dudes, hardworking guys getting passed over by people half as talented, but really good at navigating the workplace, and they have no idea why. A lot of these young guys are confused. And, you know, we talked about it off air. Unfortunately, that's not how corporate works. Corporate is not fair. You're not in Kansas anymore, my boy. This is the real world. And corporate sometimes can be like Game of Thrones. And we're gonna get into that today. We're gonna get into some actionable advice, how you can be better prepared for either getting a new job or surviving and thriving in the job you currently have. Rich, I have a quick question for you. When you were in your first corporate role, what's something that blindsided you that you weren't prepared for? And maybe you didn't learn because you came from where I came from, a place that wasn't so corporate.

SPEAKER_00: 2:02

Yeah, man. I remember a moment where I was working at a bank and the chief operating officer, the COO, came down to the IT department and just straight up asked us, like, hey guys, if your IT manager was no longer around, what would change? And we all froze. We were like, uh, damn. I already, you're already getting lined up. I could see it. Yeah. And uh, you know, we thought about it like it put us in a weird spot because we didn't know the repercussions of our feedback and and what that would change. But we were all honest that we we were the hamsters in the wheel, we were the minions, we were the ones sort of running the ship. So if the IT manager wasn't around, nothing would change. And sure enough, bro, two weeks later he was let go. And, you know, we we were all sort of blindsided and we were like, damn, the corporate cutthroat. You know, that was my first taste in like how cutthroat corporate America could really be.

SPEAKER_01: 3:00

Yeah, listen, I have north of 20 plus stories of going from growing up in an inner city. And I'll be honest with you, Rich, I really don't know many people growing up that weren't working construction or some bullshit odd job to make ends meet, at least where we're from. And to see me and you graduate from the places we came from into these more corporate jobs, it takes a lot, a lot of adjusting that college or school didn't really teach us. And I think that's something you wanted to get into today. Outside of not being the invisible employee that's constantly passed up and no one notices. I thought you had some good points in our pre-show meeting. You were you were pretty much saying, like, Justin, there's so many things that an 18-year-old rich didn't know about a real official tissue nine to five corporate job that you now would be able to give a lot of incredible advice. For those that don't know, if you want to simplify it, what is corporate to you? What does that mean in comparison to like a bullshit job you had before college?

SPEAKER_00: 4:06

Yeah, I just feel like a corporate job is definitely a more formal setting. It definitely has the path of a career rather than an odd job. There could be potential upward movement. You you see yourself potentially getting promoted or or the path to a clear career and upward trajectory is is clear in that that establishment. Obviously, anything Fortune 500, any company over billions in revenue is highly attractive. Yeah, anything that's not fast food is is kind of like what comes to mind for me. You brought up a really good point.

SPEAKER_01: 4:45

When I think of a corporate job, I think of a career-driven job, which is what you said, something that you can possibly see yourself doing in the next five, 10, 15 years that's tied to a very unique skill that you either learned through a trade school, you went out and got a certification online, you went to a smaller school to get really specifically trained in this field. But it's something where you're playing a longer-term game. We talk about that a lot, short-term games versus longer-term games. And I think the same way they apply in relationships and dating with women, it applies to corporate America. Some exchanges are, you know, give to get, but you don't think you're going to see this person ever again. So you can play short-term. When I think of corporate, I think of you're playing a long-term game because these people that are involved in this job that you have are all working towards a common goal. And that common goal is tied to wherever the CEO is or wherever the major equity holders are of that company. And they have a mission. They have a number that they have to hit, or they have a goal that they want to get to. And everybody on the team is contributing to that goal. And every department is broken up in some way, shape, or form to that numerical goal or that bigger picture that the CEO or the major stakeholders have. I'm able to dissect that and articulate that now at 39 years old. But when I was 24 entering the workforce, bro, I had no idea what the fuck anybody else did. All I knew was what I was doing. And I think a lot of the ignorance and a lot of selfishness from a lot of younger executives comes from not having a common idea of what everybody else does and what your baby role and how it serves the greater purpose. So when I think of corporate, that's what I think of. You're one part of a larger mission. It's like a sports team.

SPEAKER_00: 6:37

Yeah, that's a great point. And when I think of this topic, I think of like, man, there were so many sort of mistakes that I made starting a corporate job that I feel like reflecting now at 37 years old would have been wise for me to know. I'll share a funny story. I was uh I was in a group of uh of co-workers. We were sort of like in a huddle, and there was a couple of managers and senior people in the huddle, and we were all venting about like this one vendor that was sort of not performing well. And one of the guys in the group goes, Yeah, man, can you believe that ninja? He said he dropped the N-word in this group. Yep. And we were all like, yo, like, like we just froze. Too comfortable. Too comfortable. Too comfortable. And bro, we laughed about it after. We're like, damn, we hope some of the senior people like don't look at him a different way. But I just remember thinking in that moment, like, damn, you have to be able to separate how you talk with your friends outside of work and in the streets, right? Or if you grew up in the projects, right? Like how you interact in the streets is completely different than how you should act in a corporate job. You could be a bank teller, right? Or any corporate formal settings where you have to speak to senior leadership or customers, like you can't speak the same. Like this dude literally dropped the N-word, and we were like, I definitely feel that.

SPEAKER_01: 8:11

And I've been blessed and fortunate enough to get into a business that is more in line with how I communicate every day on the day-to-day. But given where I'm at currently in my career and the promotions I've gotten and the and the very small group of people that do what I do for a living, I have to be able to turn that switch on. And they call it code switching. When you go from speaking your natural, cultural, everyday language, your very chill, relaxed communication style that you have with your brother or your closest friends from high school or college. I don't think that's just limited to urban culture. I think all smaller communities outside of corporate have a natural way of speaking to their friends. And that doesn't always translate. I mean, to your point, it doesn't always translate one-to-one in a good way when you're around people that don't necessarily come from the same world that you come from. Or there might be words that you use with your friends that don't necessarily translate the same way in a job. And it's a tricky conversation to have because I want our community always to practice authenticity and truly know who they are and what they want and find themselves. I don't want to be out here peddling that people got to be fake in order to get what they want. But there is a way you communicate at church. There is a way you communicate at a hospital, there is a way you communicate when you meet your girlfriend's father for the first time. There's nothing inauthentic about presenting yourself in a way that's more normal to the uh a group of people that you don't really know that well. And I think the same things go for a job or a corporate job. Like you have to be able to communicate in a way that's normal to everybody before you get a little bit more comfortable. So, Rich, I think there's two sections that I want to tackle in this specific episode. And we're gonna fulfill our promise that we had earlier in the intro. We will get into actionable advice that will make you a more valuable employee and someone that is not gonna get overlooked. We want to keep our community away from being the invisible employee, the guy that's constantly being overlooked, the guy that no one ever pays attention to, but he's really, really smart. And he thinks at least he has all the right answers and he deserves a little bit more money, at the very least, a little bit more recognition. But I think what's urgent and we need to get through, and I know you have a lot of stories you want to share, Rich, was just mastering the nine-of-five politics and the traps that come with corporate America. One that you told me off air, which I thought was hilarious, was uh a funny story about HR. And I don't want to speak for you, but the way I understood it was yo, Justin, HR is not your friend. I learned that the hard way. Now, what do you mean when you say that? Because there could be somebody from HR watching right now. I think we have to explain what their function is to a company and how younger people might have it fucked up as to what they do and why they're not necessarily always on your side.

SPEAKER_00: 11:09

Yeah, bro. HR is not your friend. I feel like people have this misconception that they have your best interests at heart. I know they're called human resources, but they're really there for the benefit of the company. And I feel like oftentimes you're starting out a job and you're new to the workplace, and you think this is a confidential relationship that you could just tell anything to this HR director and it's never gonna leave the four walls of that room. I got a rude awakening for you, my boy. That might not always be the case. So HR is not your friend. They're your friend to share your 401k benefits and your medical insurance. But outside of like work situations, I would be very cautious about what you tell and speak to HR about.

SPEAKER_01: 11:59

So, I mean, the the common belief is that let's say hypothetically, Glenda and HR is there to help you. I mean, Rich, you could jump in. I don't think you're wrong by assuming she's there to help you, but she's also equally there to help senior staff achieve their greater goal. Now, if you're someone that's constantly complaining about everybody at the office, you're someone that always has negative feedback about what's going on. These are human beings. They collect data like anybody else would. And when it comes time to either do some layoffs or do a company reorg, you might get to the short end of the stick because you're just someone that's constantly complaining all the time. And I don't feel comfortable giving this level advice because I think everything is very detailed and you need to know more information. But I think that's the precaution you were giving, right, Rich?

SPEAKER_00: 12:49

Yeah, I mean, listen, I have friends in HR, so I'm I'm not saying HR people and directors and employees are bad. Yeah. I'm saying you have to be careful about the relationship that you have with an HR person. I agree with you. I think they're in a position where they have to judge everyone, whether you're a friend or a peer or not. And you're constantly being judged on your character, on what you say, on conflict mitigations, right? Like how well you get along with your colleagues and peers. And like you said, all these different data, they're collecting all these different data sets and making an assessment about you. And if you're the type of person who's always going to HR and you always have a complaint about someone, then guess what? You're going to be filed in a very unique area where when it comes time to layoffs, it's like, let's lay off the 10 people that constantly have issues with others, because you know what I mean, these others are actually high performers versus the guy who's always complaining.

SPEAKER_01: 13:51

Define high performer because I think that's where the gap is at. You have someone that thinks HR is a fucking therapy session where they can go on there and just vent, and why HR is qualifying someone who vents over a high performer.

SPEAKER_00: 14:05

Yeah, that's a great question. And I I think, I mean, you you have to understand, right? Like you're you're there for multiple reasons. You're there to collect a paycheck, right? In return for providing value of skill or service for the greater mission of pushing a company forward, whether that be helping the company mitigate risk, increase or generate profits and revenue, and ultimately move the company forward and propel it forward. If you're sort of the black swan or like the cancer in the group amongst high performers, then you're obviously an anomaly and an issue to the greater equation that is a company who's trying to move forward, reduce risk, increase profits. And on the journey of evaluating people, if you think that someone who's high performing, like if you start to evaluate people, right? And you're like, damn, this dude is getting projects over the line, he's bringing in revenue, he's closing in deals. Juanito over here is constantly complaining.

SPEAKER_02: 15:13

Well, why'd you say it like that?

SPEAKER_00: 15:16

Why why'd I give him a Spanish ass name?

SPEAKER_02: 15:19

Nah, why'd you say it like HR was very white? Juanito. So good. That's good, yeah. Shout out to Juanito, bro. Juanito or Juan. Juanito, because his father's name is Juan.

SPEAKER_00: 15:33

But Juan over here is always complaining, right? Always has an issue, doesn't get along with people, always going to HR and venting about something or someone. Chances are, bro, you're you're cancer to the equation. Also, I'm a firm believer of out of sight, out of mind, bro. And when they start rallying up the troops of who they need to let go for a mass layoff, you know what I mean? You're getting to my point. Yep. Like you might be top of mind. It's like, and not, and not in a good way. Like you're top of mind because you're just always in the HR office complaining about something.

SPEAKER_01: 16:07

Bro, listen, it's funny you mentioned that because I actually wrote in my notes a story when I was true, story, when I was working in fashion. This is like four jobs ago. I was really young. It was a really small company within a bigger company. There was only like 10 people in there. We had our own HR person. But the company was so janky that like our alleged head of HR was really cool with this other girl that worked for this really small 10-person team. And the head of HR was a party animal. She would go out a lot with the team. It was a small team. And I remember one girl, she was like not best friends, but she was really c close with this other girl who was in HR. And she would always come to the office two hours, three hours, four hours late. Like you said earlier, and you made me think about it. They did uh uh like a re-org in the company where they took some people and they put it in a larger company. And the one girl who was really cool with the head of HR, she was one of two people who got let go. And I remember getting cool enough with my boss at the time and the head of HR that I had asked her, like, yo, what whatever happened to say Erica? She said, bro, she came to work late every day. And in the back of my mind, I was thinking, but she used to hang out with you, but it didn't mean anything at the end of the day because what she assumed was a good relationship, she assumed that HR could help her keep her job, which is not really her decision. And the funniest part is that HR was also part of the group that sat down and decided who was worth keeping and who was not. And to your point, which we're bringing it full circle, who was serving the common goal? And something like that was a rude awakening, one of many in corporate America, because this person used to break bread with this person, hang out with this person, go out with them. But when push came to shove, they were a part of the decision-making team that let her go. And I couldn't think of a finer point to put on our number one, which was HR is not your friend. And we're obviously titling it that way to be a little aggressive, but what's the takeaway for you there, Rich?

SPEAKER_00: 18:26

That if it's me versus you, you know, you're gonna choose me every time, right? And that's the weird nuance about like work allegiances and alliances, is like, don't get it twisted. Like, a work friend is exactly that. A work, like you put the word work in front of friend. Like, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're a friend outside of work. And if push came to shove, if they had to throw you under the bus to save their job, chances are that they'll probably do that. So just be aware of that, I think is important.

SPEAKER_01: 19:01

Rich, we should stay right there. This wasn't in the original script, but I love that one. A work friend is that is a work friend. Now, pin that against a real life friend or somebody that when you first get a job, you think this person has to be loyal to you. I even think bosses or middle managers fall into that category as well. You might think you're cooler with them than you actually are.

SPEAKER_00: 19:23

Bro, I think that's the biggest mistake you could ever make. You could be cool with your boss or your manager or your supervisor, but I feel like you should never try to become friends with them. And I'll tell you why. Because the minute that you start venturing off into personal issues, bro, now they've officially have been given a green light to pass boundaries that they shouldn't be passing, right? So for example, if you told them that you went out drinking last night and um you ended up calling out or whatever, bro, now they know that you were out drinking, right? And they're gonna use that against you or any sort of like personal story that social media. Yeah, or social media, or or any anything that can taint the judgment of you to your manager is a net negative to that relationship. And you think that you can do that because they're your friend. They're not your friend, bro. They're your supervisor, they're your manager, they're a colleague. But I would use the word friend loosely because they can use things against you if you share personal things that that can affect you in the long run.

SPEAKER_01: 20:42

This is a tricky one, and I'm glad we stumbled on this point. Because I could see a young person just treating the job, and I'm sure we both did it too. You're coming from college, you get into a job, you start making some friends, and I I'm pretty sure the natural question they're gonna ask is like, what's wrong with hanging out with my work friends? I don't get it. Like, they are my friends.

SPEAKER_00: 21:01

That's fine too. And listen, I've worked in jobs where I've had actual friends at that job. The only reason why I got the job was because I was referred by a friend that's already working there. I think it's cool to build camaraderie amongst your peers and your colleagues, go get a drink after work. I'm a strong proponent of that. I told you about this all fair. I said building relationships and building allegiances and alliances with people that you naturally connect with, I think is super important because these folks advocate for you when you're not around. Like one of the things that I've had to do in a couple different jobs is uh during review period, I've had to do a self-evaluation and then I've had to put three references, right? Three colleagues to write a review for me.

unknown: 21:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 21:56

So it's like a peer review. And what HR wants to see is that the tribe, the work tribe that that you've built and the people that you work with also have positive things to say about you, right? So you wouldn't have those external third-party references if you didn't build a solid friendship, alliance, or allegiance with co-workers. So I think that building relationships is super important. But there's a distinction between a work friend and outside work friend, know the difference.

SPEAKER_01: 22:29

Yeah, like what's something you would tell your real life friend that you wouldn't tell your work friend? Yeah. I wouldn't tell my work friend any intimacy that I have outside of work. Bro, I barely show pictures of my family or my girlfriend or personal life shit to my co-workers. Because I do believe there is something called envy trickle. If you show people how you're living and if you make good money or anything like that, a new car you got, a vacation you went on, work friends have an agenda. Remember, everybody is a chess piece on the chess board trying to make money. That's what everybody is there to do. Make money for themselves and contribute to the greater goal that is the corporation you work for. If you're constantly talking about a new car you got, a new vacation you went on, how you're doing better than other people, bro, natural envy creeps in. There is envy trickle with that.

SPEAKER_00: 23:19

Bro, financials. Never share financials with a coworker, especially if they're your colleague. Because if you told them how much of a bonus you got, or how much money you're making, or how much of a raise you got, and it's not in comparison to what they got, you're going to start a fucking HR war disaster, you know what I mean, amongst your department. That's why you never share financials with a coworker, a peer, or a colleague. Because you might be doing better than them because naturally you have better negotiation skills than them. Or you're more qualified, yeah. Or you're more qualified, right? But you allow that envy to enter the room if you think you're comfortable enough to share financial information with a work friend. You're going to start to create chaos within your department. So please never share financial information with your work friends.

SPEAKER_01: 24:22

So, Rich, I don't want to assume that you are the most guarded employee of all time or you're somebody that definitely doesn't fuck with anybody at work. But I want to recap quickly the stuff that we've gone back and forth on. Corporate conduct versus IRL conduct. Meaning, be mindful of who you are with your friends, family, when you have a few drinks outside versus who you are nine to five. Don't wear your fucking uh social signaling political t-shirt to the office because you want to make a statement. Leave that shit at home. All those cool, inappropriate phrases or words you call your best friends, leave that shit at home. Don't bring it to the job. You flirting with a lady that I don't know anywhere in the world, don't bring that shit to the job because it doesn't translate the same way. So that was number one. Number two, Rich, you had mentioned HR is not your friend. Be mindful that these people have a role to play in the greater scheme of the company. Add a little bit more to that one, which we did get into. HR is not your friend, and HR is not therapy. Don't go there venting about everything because they have to qualify you as an employee, not just somebody that wants to vent. You want to go to therapy, find out if your health insurance plan has a therapy option and do that shit outside. Number three, which I want to get into a little deeper, is expectations of what the job is about and the reality of the job. Rich, why was that so important to you? What's something that comes to mind when I break down expectations versus reality?

SPEAKER_00: 25:58

Yeah, if you think of a young person or or even us when we first graduated college and entered the workplace for the first time, you sort of have this mental distortion where you think that, you know, you did five, six rounds of interviews and you took all these hours writing your resume and applying for jobs, and you get the job, and you think that that's it. I'm in the door, I'm badging in on my first day, I'm taking a picture next to the company logo, and you have this idea that, all right, everything will be handed to me now, right? Like I got the job. They they can't fire me. And I feel like that's such a wrong attitude to have. The race starts now. If you just got the job, this is where the race starts. And you have to, like I said, build relationships, manage expectations, learn the job, learn who's who, right? Learn the influencers in the building, the people that can advocate for you, the people that could teach you something, learn who a potential future mentor could be, right? There's so many different things that you have to understand about being employed and working for that employer. Bro, I've literally seen, I'll tell you a quick story. Brand new HR lady started at a job that I was at. Bro, week one, she came in guns blazing. She jumped on the all hands and she was like, I come from a bigger startup. There's a lot of things that need to change here. I'm going to invoke that change amongst different departments. So I'll be reaching out to every department head one by one, but just know that, you know, we need disruption. Everything is going to change. Bro, we ended that call all looking at each other like, this girl's not going to last here, right? Really? Sure enough, two weeks later, it feels like everything is two weeks, but two weeks later, she was let go. And I knew she wasn't going to last because if she just took the time to understand what the culture was in the building, she would know that that disruption, rah-rah, I'm going to change everything. I'm going to change existing processes, whether they're working or not, wasn't going to work. We had a CEO who was very methodical and required justifications for any significant change, right? And then you had this anomaly of a person coming in thinking that because she came from a bigger company, that her changes were going to be more impactful or more valid. But just that just wasn't the culture at the time. The culture was that the CEO vetted every single change, every major, you know, modification or process to any department. Had she taken the time to know that, she would have known that that aggressive approach wasn't appropriate. And sure enough, she got let go, man. So my advice to anyone out there entering the workplace for the first time is I know you're eager, I know you're excited, but take the time to understand the culture, understand where the company is, understand who is worth building relationships with and get your footing, right? You know what I mean? Like don't be eager to just start changing things because people don't like that, especially when you're new, right?

SPEAKER_01: 29:18

Yeah, I mean, rocking the boat is not always the best thing for someone that is not in the driver's seat. Leave the rocking the boat for, like we said earlier, the major stakeholders, the guys that are being graded on the overall success of the quarter, of the year. That is what corporate is built off of. Unfortunately, you have your own YouTube channel and you're the CEO of your social media account, and you just assume that you understand everything about the world because you just graduated college and you have your brand online. I don't mean to discredit anybody young, and this is what this platform is for. If you're under 30 years old and you have a world View and you have very strong opinions, that's important. We want you to have that. But when you step into a world that has already been built and this company infrastructure has existed for 20, 30 years, don't think that because you have a worldview and you've solved a few problems in your young life, that you can walk into something that has existed way before you and just reinvent that shit overnight. And the sad thing is you assume people care more than you think they do. They don't. Corporate structure is very different than the side hustle you have or your YouTube channel or your personal brand situation you got going on. I don't want to say you don't matter, you do matter, but your opinion doesn't matter as much as you think it does. So I would advise, as just an extension of what Rich just said, you have to play politics in a way that makes sense for you. You have to know who makes the decisions. I think that's important. Who are the key decision makers here? What are the metrics that they use in order to understand who's valuable to this team? And politics is not about kissing ass. Politics is about understanding how the game is being played. So if you're really good at soccer and you jump on a field where everybody's playing rugby, you're gonna be shocked when somebody fucking lifts you off your feet and slams you on your neck because you're playing a game by different rules. Games in politics is something that's unavoidable when you work with other people. So I want to get to the second half of this podcast as quickly as possible because I want to get into certain things that are really important to Rich and I, but you can't avoid the game as much as a surfer can avoid water. You have to play within the confines of the environment that you're in. So Rich and I are not fucking corporate squares that are telling you to follow all the rules. What we're really saying is, bro, understand the rules, understand the key decision makers, understand the key players, understand the metrics that move the company forward, and understand where you fit into all of it. If you're an administrative assistant, no one really gives a fuck what you think about the big project of the year that the whole company is leaning in on. The best thing you could do is get in where you fit in and contribute where you can contribute. Don't be a part of the problem. Add to the solution. So, Rich, I know we kind of went off on a tangent there, but it's really important for young people to know this expectations versus reality. And all of these things could fall into that category, but I think what you said was very important. That woman that went in there, guns blazing, had it fucked up. She really thought it was about her, and it wasn't. That environment was already set, that culture was set. Whoever hired her made a mistake, but they got rid of her fast because she wasn't added to the overall goal.

SPEAKER_00: 32:46

Yeah, that's exactly right. And listen, bro, there's no Bible or rule book on how to enter the workforce and sort of be successful, right? Like a lot of it is just randomness. A lot of is you figuring out on-the-job skills. I think what we're saying is very simple. The first six months, you are in what's called learning mode. You're learning what the company is about, how it operates, who are the influencers, who are the change managers. You're building a cadence with uh your team, with your manager. They're learning you, you're learning them. You should not be trying to rattle any feathers, like work hard to be liked because you're part of a team, right? You're part of a team, you're part of a company, but you're in learning mode, bro. I know you're excited and you probably want to um invoke change and prove your value immediately, but it's okay to take it slow and take the six months necessary. I think that that's the baseline. It's like it takes everyone at least minimum six months to adjust to any position at any company. Yeah. Right? Because there's just so much to consume, right? So much processes to understand, so much uh information to collect and gather. But don't rush that learning phase. Take six months to learn uh your position and learn the game.

SPEAKER_01: 34:14

You know, you you mentioned something which was a key phrase to a close friend of mine that we both know, Dylan. It was a phrase that he would say all the time. Everybody in this place thinks getting the job is the job. Now, I respect the fuck out of you, Rich. And our community is having fun with how much we bond with each other on our show. They said that maybe me and you should consider taking each other out on a date because we love each other so much. Well, I have news for them. I wish and pray that you have a friend as good as Rich in your life. Because not only will you make money with that friend, but you also get to build really cool products with the trolls, the trolls. Yeah, the trolls. We got a lot of trolls. But my good friend Dylan, who is somebody I have a close relationship with, he also had the same phrase and he would use it all the time. And y'all have never discussed that. Why is that such a key phrase? Why do people believe getting the job is the job? And just so we're speaking towards solution, what do you think is the anecdote to that?

SPEAKER_00: 35:14

Yeah, because I I mean, getting the job is certainly a journey. Like I said before, you have to you have to build your resume, you have to put out 50, 60, 100 plus applications, you have to do a bunch of rounds of interviews, both remote and in person, and you're being vetted by all these different people. So it's it's at least what a three-month, 90-day process. So it feels like a hard, achievable thing. Once they extend that offer to you and you see some monetary compensation on a employment contract, you feel like I made it. That's it. I signed it. I have a start date. I have my work badge, and it's this like mental shift that you're making where you feel like you made it. But it's like, bro, like I said before, the race starts on day one. And then you go into a six-month learning phase. And then hopefully, once you're settled in after the first six months, the second six months, you're starting to provide value. And we're gonna get into that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01: 36:17

I want to get into value, but I do want to go back to the title of this episode, which is very relevant. And I could see our listeners and our viewers being like, these guys seem obsessed with politics. The episode title is Navigating Nine to Five Politics and Corporate Traps. Rich, I can't overstate it. A lot of work is about corporate politics, understanding how to play the game within the game. This is the nasty side and the hidden truth about big corporations. A lot of people hide in the cut, they practice having good political skills, and they make their lives easier by playing the game. They don't necessarily contribute. And I'll be honest, if you're listening to this podcast and you're a go-getter and you're someone that lives in a fantasy, which I've lived in that fantasy too, that a job is merit-based. The energy and effort that I put in, I'm gonna get that back and pay. I'm gonna get that back and acknowledge. Why is that something that's just not true, Rich? And why is that a cautionary tale for a lot of young guys that they should understand that's just not how corporate works. Why dedicate a whole episode to understanding the traps in the politics of a corporate nine to five?

SPEAKER_00: 37:29

Bro, because it there's a lot of nuances that when we enter the workplace, we didn't understand. I'll give you two examples, right? One is I think for a long time, textbook education tells you nine to five, ten to six. Bro, when you actually start in the workplace, yeah, bro. I work 10-hour shifts, 11, 12, work on the weekends, send five emails on a Sunday night. Bro, you're on almost like 24-7. So this idea that you're gonna clock out, like such an antiquated idea that you're gonna clock out at five and work finishes at five. True. If you're actually in a career-based role where you're leveraging your college diploma and you're working in your career, your career path, there's no end date to your workday, right? I work on the weekends, I work at night, I work whenever the job calls me or needs me to work. And that's just a reality. I think when you graduate college, no one tells you that. No one tells you, like, bro, by the way, you're probably gonna be working 10 hours a day. You're probably not gonna have as much time for your girlfriend as you used to have. You're not gonna have time for your friends as you think you used to have or family as you used to have. No one tells you these things, right? So there's a lot of nuances that we're trying to highlight. We're trying to warn you. I mean, like, it's not urgent, but it is urgent. We're trying to warn you that you just started the workplace for the first time. There's a lot of nuances that you need to understand in order for you to be successful.

SPEAKER_01: 39:11

Rich, you're getting to a point that we made two episodes ago, and I want to bring it up again. And we will dedicate the next half of this episode to some actionable advice, some soft skills, some hard skills in the workplace that will help you avoid becoming the invisible employee that everybody overlooks for all growth, bonuses, raises, opportunities. We're gonna help you guys with that for sure. And I think that's something that me and Rich, as a tandem, are more designed, and our pedigree is more in that world. Playing politics, unfortunately, we've just been scarred by the politics of corporate culture that either you learn how to navigate it, or you're gonna get destroyed by it. You can either learn how to swim while everybody's learning how to float and get ahead of the game. Just because everybody's floating doesn't mean that you can't learn other skills to get better and adapt and survive in this world. This is some 300-level shit we started this episode with. We're gonna get into the 101, the 201, the practical advice, things you definitely need to do. You can probably Google or Chat GPT half of the shit that we're gonna say in the second half of the episode. But like you said, Rich, that nuance, man. That shit is important. You're not gonna know how shady corporate America is until you're literally having lunch with someone one day, and the next day they're shitting on you in a job review performance, and you're just like, damn, I thought this was my man's. Like, what just happened? Hey, it's survival. It's a survival game. And corporate America is a survival game. In the intro, we compared it to Succession and Game of Thrones. Watch those TV shows. You may not be ready for it. It seems fucked up, it seems harsh, it seems unapologetically vile and cutthroat, but that's really a lot of the framework that goes into corporate America. Yeah, I see you smiling. I'm sure you want to add something.

SPEAKER_00: 41:04

Bro, that just reminded me of a time where I went to Roundup lunch for my department, including that manager that I mentioned was let go. And I went to get Chipotle for everyone. So everyone gave me the order. I went, I picked it up. But when I came back, the dude was fired. The dude who fired him, I came up and I was like, but I have his Chipotle here. And he was like, Well, looks like you have two meals now. Bro, is that not savage? Bro, the true fucking story. True story. Like, fuck your lunch. We're gonna escort you out the building. Somebody else is gonna eat your lunch, and you're you're fired. Like, yeah, literally and metaphorically. Rich, did you eat the other bull? Yeah, we we shared it amongst you. That's not a metaphor for life. I don't know what is. Yeah, we we called it eating his ashes. We were like, damn, R.I.P. uh so-and-so. Oh, okay, gotcha. And we we made it into like a little funny moment.

SPEAKER_01: 42:04

You are you were honoring him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yo, one thing before we have a hard pivot into the how do I avoid becoming the invisible employee syndrome, I do want to put a fine point on this portion of the podcast. If you graduated from college and your mom says you're the most handsome little boy in the world, and your dad thinks you're an overachiever and you're just like him, you're gonna go out and conquer this world with just a little bit of excitement and good energy in your degree, you're in for a rude awakening and an ass whooping called reality. Jobs are not charities. And just because you have a degree and good spirit on the first two months of your job, there are no guarantees in corporate America. You are being paid by someone else to deliver the goods. And if you don't deliver the goods, it is a high probability you are going to lose your job. So whoever the fuck told you that corporate America and a nine of five job owes you something, they lied to you. And if you're seeing it on social media, they also lie to you. Make sure you know what you're getting yourself into before you get your first job because there's a lot of bullshit out there that misleads a lot of young people into believing that all of this shit is a given and it's not.

SPEAKER_00: 43:32

Yeah, I think that's super important. Man, I have a bunch of different actionable advice, but I think one that I like to start with is I know it sounds simple in nature, but if you're entering the workforce for the first time, don't be the guy that says, this is not my job, right? Oftentimes you you see the the memes of like the new employee going running out and getting everybody coffee or picking up the company mail or just doing like little oddball jobs. And people remember that, bro. People remember the person who was kind, the person who took the extra mile to do something for for someone, to go pick up lunch, to take a work call, or anything of that nature. First of all, never use that phrase. This is not my job. People remember the person or people who say this is not my job, because that clearly signals to your employer, to your peers, to your colleague, that you are not a team player, that you're not willing to go above and beyond anything that is your job description and that you're very linear thinking. And it's it's going to pigeonhole you. They're going to isolate and think like, damn, uh, we can't count on this person the way we can count on others who would go above and beyond.

SPEAKER_01: 44:53

That's a great one, Rich. And it's so funny you mentioned that because in my notes and prep for the show, I wrote a nice, very simple 101 list for the young man that is fucking ironing his shirt, creasing his pants. He's about to get started in his first real official tissue job. And what you just said, it may sound cliche or like obvious, but it's not. When you're the young guy at the office, we are relying on you to be all of that and more. But what you cannot be is the I don't do that guy. Granted, everything comes at a limit. I do want to be clear because uh again, people can get real cute with the shit you're doing for them. Yeah. But everything comes with a reasonable limit. Everything we say on this podcast from now until eternity, just use your own fucking practical knowledge and everything is within reason. But Rich, I do want to add a nice little list to what you just said that I think is essential, it's vital. You cannot move forward without it. Number one, be irreplaceable in your role. Meaning, if Rich, the assistant, had the administrative executive job for six months, and that motherfucker was so good at everything that was part of his job description, and maybe a little bit more, you know what you want to happen, Rich? You know how you become irreplaceable? When you go on vacation or you're gone for a week, people say, damn, what the fuck were we doing without this guy in that seat? And it could be the smallest role, but if you're irreplaceable in your role, it becomes very obvious when you get replaced or you take a new job or you ask for a promotion because they gotta figure it out. That's the best threat that you can give a corporation or a company or a small team. Man, I want a promotion. And they have to think to themselves, damn, if he left us, we are gonna have a lot of trouble filling this spot. That's when you ask for a different job or a promotion. Let you go on vacation for two weeks. The whole fucking department will be thrown off. That's how you know you're a valuable team member. Number two, Rich, is I always find the young executive that's very interested in their job. They actually care about what they do. They're researching it on their free time. They have feedback of how like the current role could be improved. They're not talking about my job, they're talking about their job and how much they enjoy learning about it. That's always a good sign of a young killer to me. Yeah. Number three, which is aligned with that one, is someone who's curious. Be interested and be curious. So those are my top three, Rich, off top. I don't want to go through a whole list with each one individually, but I want you to know if you're irreplaceable in your role, if you're interested in your job, you're always curious about what you're doing for a living. I think it's hard for people to deny you of what you want when it's time to give you what you want.

SPEAKER_00: 47:50

Yeah. I I think those are great. Man, one that I was very poor in doing for a really long time, for many, many years, was having the ability to manage up. Oh, wow. Yeah. Being able to talk to your manager, set expectations. I think you alluded to this, right? Like, how can I improve? Uh, what skills am I missing? How can I contribute better to the team? Is there a course I could take? Is there a certification I should pursue? Do you need me to stay later? Right? Being resourceful, that that right there, being resourceful is the unequivocally one of the biggest advantages. Uh, I'm letting out all my secrets now, but uh one of the biggest advantages that's that's helped me get promotions and rise up. When my name is synonymous with someone who is resourceful, someone dependable that you can count on. But being able to manage up, I think is super important. You got to understand the relationship between you and your manager shouldn't be one-sided. It's not your manager telling you what their expectations of you are, it should be the other way around as well. And I know that sounds a little bit intimidating for a young person, but please, you absolutely have to do that. Tell them what you expect, tell them that you are anticipating a potential raise in 12 months. What are the key targets I need to hit in order to get a promotion in the next 12 to 18 months? That's what the conversations you should be having with your manager. So gain that ability to be able to manage up.

SPEAKER_01: 49:26

I love that. I love the managing up, and you know I'm big on being resourceful. That's something you and I have always bonded over. There's probably about three different episodes where we got into why being resourceful is so important. So I don't want to belabor that point or add more to it that doesn't need to be had, but there's no more valuable teammate than the teammate that can solve any type of problem. The Wi-Fi is down, Eddie can take care of it. We're running late for a team meeting. We need somebody to go pick something up and meet us at the destination, Eddie could take care of it. Something as simple as, hey, I'm coming in late, I had a family emergency, I need you to step up and do a little bit of my job, and maybe we can see that you're actually capable of doing some sales. Eddie steps in and delivers it with that motherfucking signature that he's known for, that it's gonna be overlooked, it's gonna be thorough, and there's gonna be very, very, very great attention to detail. That is the kind of team member you want because he's resourceful and reliable. Reliable and resourceful, very underrated, skills rich, and having the ability to manage up is important because if you can manage up, then that means you understand the responsibility of the people that are above you and you're helping them do their job. When it's promotion time, when it's bonus time, people tend to be a little bit more reasonable with giving a little bit more money to the people that make their lives easier. How do you do that? You manage up, you understand what your boss's role is, what's important to him, how he does his job, and you help him do his job, you're resourceful and you're reliable. I think that's a great cocktail for success right there, Rich. I do want to pivot real quick because I have a scenario that came up in our community, and I want to know off top, you I we didn't plan this, but how would you react to this situation to a young man that feels like he's invisible in the workplace, he's constantly overlooked, he's been there for three years, has never been considered for promotion, and his middle manager keeps telling him, Don't worry about it, Eddie. Keep working hard, man. I got my eye on you. Your efforts are not unseen, but there's no action. Meanwhile, you got Greg in sales. Greg takes 90-minute lunch. He's always flirting with uh the GM's assistant. Well, him and the GM, they went to the same college. They bond over, they went, they're in the same fraternity. Greg is occasionally sliding out at 4 p.m. every day. No one notices it, even though everybody has to leave at 5, 5.30. You know this because a friend of yours told you. Greg writes all his email recaps on ChatGBT, and you could see that he's obviously writing it on ChatGBT, but guess what? Bro got another promotion. Bro gets along with the whole senior staff, and he got a really good bonus at the end of the year, and you got nothing. What is your advice to that guy? Let's call him Eddie, that is furious and feels like he's constantly overlooked.

SPEAKER_00: 52:22

Yeah. Eddie, I've been there, man. That reminds me, beware of the carrot dangling epidemic. I'm gonna call it. Hey, yo. But the carrot dangling, bro, that's when your manager's like, if you do a little bit more, you can get this carrot that I have here.

SPEAKER_01: 52:44

That's a tricky one though, Rich, right? Because all the advice we gave Eddie up to this point would be he would he would take it. He would be like, Yeah, I gotta do more. But you're saying that's a trapdoor.

SPEAKER_00: 52:53

But remember, he Eddie's saying he's three years in. So we're making the assumption that you've proved your value over the last three years, right? At this point, you're carrot dangling. You're showing me a shiny trophy or or medal or a monetary bonus, and you're saying if you just do a little bit more, you can get to it. But every time you do a little bit more, the carrot keeps going further and further away. I got you. That's also another political game. They're playing games. It's a political game, and I've been there, bro, more than once. And how I've managed those situations is in two ways. Number one, I've highlighted that that's occurring in a very in the most professional way that you can absolutely muster, right? So whenever I raise a concern and I get pushback, and I raise a concern and I get pushback, I highlight the fact that by the way, I've received this feedback three times. I've made this adjustment three times, and I still feel like I'm nowhere closer to what was promised. Right. And just highlight that. Two, I think, and I'm a strong proponent of this. And by the way, this is not for the person who just started working. This is for Eddie, who's like three, four years in. And he's hating on Greg. Yeah, yeah. Forget about Greg for a second. This is 1v1 with you and your manager. You have to find the ability to put a little bit of fear in your manager's heart. Put a little bit of fear in him. Make him feel like you're a flight risk. How do you do that? And by the way, this kind of ties back into the work friendship. If you're too close to your manager, ah, Eddie's never gonna leave. That's my boy. He's getting spun. Yeah, he's spinning them. That's my boy. He'll never leave, right? This is why we tell you to separate the two, your work friend and your actual at-home friends, right? Because if you're too friendly with your boss, he's just gonna keep dangling that carrot, bro. So my feedback is put a little bit of fear in his heart, make them feel like you're a flight risk. How do you do that? Bro, you make side comments. Damn, my LinkedIn is blowing up. These recruiters keep hitting me up.

SPEAKER_02: 55:12

You're just you're just working on your resume in the middle of your queue in the hallway.

SPEAKER_00: 55:16

No, no, no. Don't, don't, no, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't be that blatant. But if if you're witty and crafty enough, and I've done this, bro, there are ways that you can inadvertently make your manager or supervisor be a little curious, like, huh? You know, just make them think. Just put a little bit of fear. And it could be indirect, like I said, it could be like, damn, these recruiters keep hitting me up, or you just pick up the phone, like, oh man, another recruiter just hang up right away. By the way, it could be completely false. Who cares? As long as your manager feels like you're a flight risk and you could potentially leave the company, or that there are other opportunities out there that you could potentially leverage and take advantage of, that will only come if you instill that fear in them. If they don't view you as a flight risk or someone who could potentially leave, they're just gonna keep dangling that carrot. So that's how I've handled that situation before.

SPEAKER_01: 56:14

Rich, I love that advice. And I'm gonna give some dating advice that also works for the corporate world. A dangerous man is a man with options. A toothless man is a man that has to be fed and given everything and has no options. It's the same thing as dating as it is with a job. How do you stay sharp? You work on your skill set, you probably take a few hours after work, before work on the weekend, start sharpening up in your field, develop trades. Rich, I know you've always been really good at this. Get a certification, have knowledge about what future employers want outside of your company. Educate yourself on what's going on outside of your company. You're only desperate if you have no negotiating power. Straight up. And you could only be spun around a thousand times and get the carrot dangled because you have no other options. You keep believing this lie that is piece of shit people in the workplace that like to claim they have power, but they have no autonomy or power. Eddie's boss might low-key not even be able to give himself a fucking promotion or give anybody a department a promotion. That man is as castrated as everybody else in that job. Maybe there's one key decision maker walking around all day and he's not even responding to Eddie's fucking vacation request. You think he's in there fighting for your promotion when he gets talked to the CEO? You're dead wrong, bro. So get some options if you don't have options. And if you don't have options, start acquiring skills. Like Rich said, start tightening up your resume, start posting cryptic posts on LinkedIn so people can see that you are potentially a candidate that is looking for a new opportunity. But that's never gonna happen if you're just sitting there waiting. I actually read a very interesting stat when we were doing research, Rich. They say the half-life of a skill set in any major market is only about three or five years because of the boom in AI, global employment, and a lot of jobs getting hired through work from home. Meaning the competitive landscape has gotten so crazy that in 1990, you could have a skill set and not freshen it up for 10 years and you'll still be good. Now, the cocktail of those four things that I mentioned are putting so much pressure and everybody's staying sharp in their roles that your skill set only lasts three to four years in the competitive workplace today. You have more of a shot of putting fucking whole milk in the street in the sun and that shit lasting longer than the skills you have. So from every angle, there's pressure. Not to mention you're not being acknowledged in the role you're currently in. What more motivation do you need to get better at your job and to start freshening up your skills?

SPEAKER_00: 59:18

Yeah, bro. I in today's workplace, there's no room for average, bro. You have to articulate your value. Something that I that I'm keen on, and I've really only learned this maybe in the last four or five years, is every year towards the end of the year, and I've actually already done it for this year, is upon my annual review, bro, and I keep notes throughout the year of all the different projects I worked on, how they've provided value over or reduced risk, or how it's directly correlated or impact to the business. And at the end of the year, I usually have 10 to 12 bullet points strongly. Not like I took out the garbage. This was not part of my job, bro. Not no bullshit like tasks. I'm talking about like real impactful projects with metrics, impact, and direct like success in that project. And I hand it over to my manager.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:19

I'm sorry to jump in, but the real key of advice that you're giving here, the real gem is make your job review about how you help the company reach its goals. Not about how you deserve to get the promotion. It's I've helped the company achieve all these things. You'd be a fucking idiot to let me go and work somewhere else or not acknowledge my complaint about how I feel underserved or underacknowledged. Sorry to cut you off. Because I know that's what you're saying, but you're talking about your own situation.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:56

No, no, no. I I love that reframing. And that's exactly it. It's just, it's twofold, right? It's one, it's highlighting your value, but even more importantly, to the powers that be your manager, COO, CFO, or CEO is oh, this person's contribution directly affects this firm. This is an asset, right? Versus the guy who's always complaining to HR, who's a liability. You know what I mean? Just kind of looping it back to the that's a fact. That's a fact.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:33

We spoke about it earlier. Understand the business that you're in. Understand how your company makes money and serves the greater business. Understand who their competitors are. You're not doing this because you want a promotion. You're doing this because, one, we hope you actually enjoy what the fuck you do. Two, you're paying attention to what's going on. And most importantly, three, which is the point you just made, Rich, how do I contribute to the company's greater goal? Once you could reverse engineer all that, you can realize how non-valuable you are, or how valuable you could potentially be. If you don't know any of that, you are quite literally standing in front of Chinese checkers for the first time, trying to beat a Chinese checkers master at a game. You're never going to get what you want when you don't know what the fuck you're doing or what anybody else wants. We hate to bring the whole episode full circle, but it is what it is. If you don't pay attention to what's going on and what value you contribute, you don't know who you are and where you stand on the chessboard.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:39

Yeah, no, I love that, bro. And you said this earlier, like corporate politics is like fucking Game of Thrones. Like, I know it sounds exciting in the beginning and you're enthusiastic about um making change and proving your value, but there's a lot of bullshit that you have to manage and absorb and even tweak yourself and how you carry yourself amongst this new corporate environment that you find yourself in. That there's a lot of molding that happens before you get to a place where everything is working, the gears on the train are moving forward. Like you understand your job, you know who's who, you know what value you bring. It takes a long time. And that that leads me to another one that I don't want to end the show on without mentioning, but I feel like it's super important. And I'm I'm sure you could speak to this, Just, because we probably still deal with this today is learn how to manage your stress. Like work can be very stressful. Deadlines can be very stressful. Getting on a Zoom call with a hundred people and having to do presentation can be nerve-wracking. Work is constant stress. Learn how to manage that stress, and that'll help you be successful in any role that you're in, not just the one you find yourself currently in.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:00

Rich, I have a very personal story that is tied to that, but it's in the opposite way. Almost. My first job in the music business, I tied so much of that job to my personal identity because I was so happy and excited that I was official tissue. Like you said, I took a picture of the sign, of the logo of the company I worked for. They gave me a leather jacket that was from the original year one staff of this company that I was working at. And I remember wearing it out every day. And I have no regrets, but I do feel like an idiot talking about it at 39 years old, how invested I was in a job that could easily get rid of me. And the story is about three years into my career, I was reaching new heights as a person, as a professional, and I was finally achieving things that I always thought I was capable of in the music business. And I wound up getting accolades, as you can see, they give you big trophies when your records do well. And Rich, I was so upside down in ego and investment for my employer that life just fucking blindsided me like a train, and I was picking up a nickel. Oh four, I would say year three in my role doing marketing at a major record label, they cut all budgets. I do marketing, project management. I'm only as good as the money I can apply towards my marketing strategy, and I can give to each department and I can allocate to the artist so we can market their product. So the challenge at this company that was going through hard times, and by the way, everybody in the that worked for this company had no control over the budgets. This is when I got the rudest awakening about corporate America. Not even the GM or the CEO could change what was happening. And I was politely told by my direct report, who was an absolute dickhead and one of the worst people I ever worked for, he said, yo, don't worry about it. We have the rest of the quarter off. Enjoy your time. And bro, I was so invested and I was so I was such a high about all the success that was happening in my life. And I tied a lot of my personal value, my own self, human value, to the identity of this job. That no lie, it's the first time in my life that I could legitimately say I felt so sad and depressed because I didn't even know what I was like on this planet for. Because I tied my whole identity to my job. And that's what you just said, but in a different way. I didn't have any hobbies. I was talking to a few girls at the time, but I was really disconnected from my family. I actually mentioned this in our first episode ever about how I went through a little funk after a job, and this is what set it off. My grandmother passed, like, I was just so invested in my job. Damn. And that rude awakening was damn, I don't have an identity outside of my job, and I'm falling into a slight depression. And I'll never forget it, bro. I'll never forget it. Since that day forward, I was always very aware of how much I spoke about the companies I worked for, how much I championed them outside of the job, which I've always been really good at my job. And I try to develop better hobbies, better personal relationships with my friends and family, things I like to do outside of work because, like you said, and I'm glad you brought it up, I was too invested in the job and what it made me look like to other people. And I had no personal identity outside of it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:44

Damn, I love that you shared that story. And, you know, to be clear, we we're not trying to scare you. I feel like, yeah, that got dark quick. Yeah. No, no, no, no. This this was good. I'm glad you shared that because that's super important, right? Like we do tie our identities to our jobs and our careers, and it's very easy to fall into that career-driven matrix. Yeah, but who's Rich? Who's Justin? Outside of their employer. Yeah, exactly. Um, so I'm glad you shared that. But at the same time, right, like everything that we've mentioned is sort of like ringing the alarm, right? Some are more urgent than others. I think the the biggest thing for us is just understand as you graduate college and you enter the workplace, going back again to the nuances. There's a lot of different nuances, a lot of things you're going to have to navigate. Identity crisis being one of them. So don't let your eagerness to start a job and provide or show value immediately hinder the fact that, bro, by the way, you're still an individual. You're still growing, you're still learning. And getting the job is just one equation to the overall marathon. But I feel like we shared a good amount of actionable advice.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:04

Yeah. I mean, uh, if any of my old employers heard this, I'm sure they're uh not excited about what I had to say about them uh on my way out. But you know what? You learn as you go along. And the same could say about a job as it could be about dating. You think the first girl you meet fresh out of middle school, your first relationship is gonna be the woman you marry, you have four kids with, and you're with forever. It's just life doesn't work that way. Everything is a teachable, learnable moment. And you're gonna learn a lot about the world through textbooks and information and running research on ChatGPT or Claude. That's fine. You want to gather as much information as possible. You want to listen to all of these podcasts, but nothing's gonna teach you more than real life. And that first girlfriend you get, even that second girlfriend you get. That first job you get, even that second job you get. It may seem like it's the most important thing in that moment, but the truth is you're just constantly gathering more information to understand who you are and what you really like. And I'm really content with where I'm at in my life, but I'm still hungry for more. But a lot of that comes from understanding the reality of corporate America and what it doesn't do for you, even though you believe it will do these things for you. It pays what you put into it. And if you overachieve and you're one of the gregs of the world, you're a gold star employee, you're gonna get big bonuses, you're gonna get extra pay. Recruiters will come and try to steal you from that job, and you'll get opportunities to get other jobs. But like you said, Rich, and I think it should be the banner of this episode. There's no room for average, whether it's corporate or personal. You shouldn't treat anything with the level of average because it's not gonna serve you in a job or outside of a job. And I think that's really important. So, just a few key pieces of information to take away when you listen to this episode. Everything is a part of a journey. Don't think that the girl and the job is gonna save you and make your life permanently blissful because it's not, bro. It's not. And I think that's something that we may sound jaded and like people that hate on corporate America, but we don't. I think it's having reality tied to what you think is gonna save your life or make your life incredible, and it's not.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:23

Damn. I love that. Perfect way to close. Man, share your struggles, bro. We we want to hear them in the comments, especially if you just started the workplace for the first time, or you need help navigating different work situations or even work-life balance, right? I think that's something that we didn't touch on. There's definitely a lot more we could have touched on, but I feel like this is a solid group of actionable advice. For sure.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:51

For sure. Rich, one thing we should have an episode on, and I'd be curious to know, I want to mention here in case our community wants to jump in and vote for it. We should discuss the high volume of content on the internet trying to convince young men who have zero working skills that they should be full-blown entrepreneurs and not get in the workplace. I'm not pro-corporate as I am more pro being an entrepreneur, but I do believe there is this predatorial content creation thing going on that likes to keep young people convinced that getting a job is bad and working for yourself is good and there is no nuance or in between. And I think that's bullshit. I really do believe that that is something that should be discussed and unpacked because there is no right or wrong answer. A lot can be gained from doing either. So we're not anti-jobs, we're not anti-corporate, we're not anti-careers. Rich and I have lived very reasonable lives given the opportunities that we're given and how we capitalized on them. But that doesn't mean we're anti-entrepreneur or pro a full-time job. It just means that there are a lot of thorns that come with each of those roses.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:04

Yeah, that's the carrot dangling, right? Like learn YouTube and you can be successful and get an abundance of riches. But first, you gotta buy something from me. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Or watch this 30-second ad so I can get paid from it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:21

There you go. Rich, uh, I feel like this was a thorough one, man. This is one that it felt different too. Like, we haven't really touched on this subject, so it was good to speak on it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:31

Yeah, and I feel like we we have a decent amount of life experiences and our own failures that that we've highlighted from. And like I said earlier, bro, there's no rule book for for this. There's no textbook, there's no, these are the top 10 guidelines you need to follow to be successful in the workplace or successful in corporate America. It's very nuanced, it's very uh case sensitive, and you have to be willing to enter that journey with an open mind and enter it from a place of learning and understanding versus change and disruption. So, yeah, man, there you have it. Navigating corporate America. Man, we're on YouTube. I constantly say this every episode, but subscribe at failuresmedia. And also, if you're tuning in on the audio portion of the podcast, give us a five star on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Peace.