SPEAKER_00 0:02

The question you should ask yourself is: all right, if my life is a video game, am I the person holding the controller? Am I controlling my life? Or am I the avatar? Am I being controlled by someone else? If you can't answer that question, chances are you're the avatar. Because someone who's in control of their life could stop playing the game, disconnect the game, and carry on. And that is something that I'm very much conflicted by, Rich. Because part of that game is me not being ordinary. I want to be great. I want to be excellent. I want to be one of those ones. But what if that doesn't happen? Today we're talking about the fear of being ordinary. Think about it. Think about the word ordinary. What does it mean? You're average, you're one of many, you achieved very little in your life, you're just ordinary. If you feel triggered by that word being called ordinary or an underachiever, stay right here. This episode is for you. Here's a better question, though. What this episode is really about is why does it matter? What's wrong with being ordinary? What do we fear? Why do we fear it? Is it the idea of being irrelevant and insignificant? Do comparisons of other men who are less accomplished trigger you? That question actually came from our pre-show meeting. Rich and I were having a conversation discussing show prep, and I compared Rich to someone average, and it triggered him. So the question to start this episode about the fear of being ordinary starts right here, right at home. Me and Rich created a platform to speak to young men or men that are going through life crisis. Rich, this is one of those unique episodes that's about us. Why does it trigger you when you hear the word ordinary or you get compared to someone that you feel like is less accomplished than you?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yeah, man. Listen, I'm excited to unpack this one, just because, like you said, this is us, right? Like we live in that fear of feeling forgotten, feeling like all the hard work that we put in might not be noticed by people that we put in all this work and we have nothing to show for it, right? And you know, there's this very interesting thing where when you start to feel sort of normal and ordinary, you feel like you're not accomplishing your goals. You feel like you're not set out to pursue the things that you wanted to pursue. And there's a laundry list of things that contribute to that feeling, right? Like we're gonna get into social media comparisons, how uh external validation from family can make you feel like you're not doing everything that you want to be doing. So I'm excited to unpack this one, Jess.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Yeah, Rich, you had mentioned something earlier about a fear of being forgettable. And that was a pivot that you made on the original episode title, which is the fear of being ordinary. Why do you correlate the two between being forgettable and being ordinary? Why are those two things connected to you?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Listen, I think when you're working towards something and you're building something and you're an ambitious person and you're an overachiever and you sort of want to be recognized for your accomplishments and accolades, and you add the word forgettable or ordinary, it's sort of the opposite of what you're trying to pursue, right? Like you are on a mission to do greater things because of said ambition, right? Like for me personally, bro, I grew up with not a lot of money. My parents didn't have a lot to provide for us. We were on every government assistance you could possibly think of. So I made a decision a long time ago that I'm gonna get us the resources we need, I'm gonna overachieve, I'm gonna get all this money that I possibly can. I'm gonna try to build businesses to not be ordinary, to not be normal, to not feel poor. So when you say forgettable and ordinary, to me, that's just like status quo, right? Like these guys are living a normal life and really don't have much to show for it.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, Rich, I I could see our listener right now, somebody that has lived in the failures universe and have probably watched a few YouTube episodes or listened to a few episodes on Spotify, and they're probably sitting here thinking, why make an episode about this? You've spent the last 30 plus episodes telling us to be an overachiever, max out in your potential, don't limit yourself. And now it seems like we're being hypocrites because we're standing on the other side saying, man, maybe you should do some internal dialogue and do some internal work to figure out why you feel broken for trying to be extraordinary. Where's the nuance there and why make this episode? What's the point of this episode?

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Listen, I think naturally this fear of feeling ordinary and feeling normal and feeling regular is gonna hit every man, every young man, every overachiever, every man trying to accomplish something. And I think what we're basically trying to highlight here is that that feeling is normal, right? And you're going to look at your peers, coworkers, social media, and you're going to see a lot of things on there of people appearing to do a lot better than what you're doing today. And then you start to compare yourself to what they're doing. And then you start to look at your life and you question why am I not there yet? Or why do these people have more than what I have? Am I not working hard enough? Do I need to hustle harder? Am I broken? What about me in this equation is not working, right? So that's what we're here to highlight. It's just like that fear of being regular and ordinary is going to come, even if you are someone who is an overachiever.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Rich, what you said right there was going to be mentioned later in the episode because it's so important to me. Having the ability to differentiate between what do I want personally, what drives me personally, and what am I doing because I'm seeking validation? Those are two very different things. Do you get up in the morning and do things you enjoy because they truly fulfill you? Or do you get up in the morning and do things that you don't really want to do, but you can't wait until you get paid so you can buy shit that other people can recognize that you're an amazing person. You're an overaccomplished individual, you're an extraordinary individual. Look at me. I have all this jewelry. Look at me. Look at this beautiful home that I own. Look at me. Look at my kids. They look healthy, they look happy. I've curated my life in a way on social media that everyone that sees my life believes wow, there stands a human being that is extraordinary. This person is better than everybody else. If you're living your life just to post photos, and if you're living your life just to have your neighbors tell you how incredible you are, or your coworkers say how amazing your family is, you're living through an external scorecard. You are living just so other people could judge you and give you the thumbs up, the likes, the comments. In real life, your life mission is validated through other people's validation. That is what an external scorecard is. You're living for other people and you don't even realize it. I had this problem. I still suffer from this problem because I work in a business that's so vain, it's so forward-facing. Everything I do with all of the artists I work with is about getting attention for things that are pointless in theory. And there's no bigger or greater adrenaline rush than being in a suburban, five suburbans, back to back to back, one of the biggest artists in the world. And I get to be in one of those suburbans. I'm not the artist, I'm not the famous person. But the adrenaline rush that I get when I hop out of a suburban and paparazzi pulls up and they're taking pictures, man, I feel so important, Rich. And it validates me in a way that I know is not healthy. In my opinion, that's what this episode is about. Trying to strike that balance between am I enjoying this because I like how people see me, or am I genuinely capable of sitting alone in a room for 30 minutes and enjoying what I'm doing, enjoying myself, enjoying my own company. That is an internal scorecard. That's very different. I don't know if I figure that out. So I kind of feel like a hypocrite. And I do feel bad for our listener because if they're suffering with that, I want to tell you something. I'm still suffering from that. And I'm 40 years old, Rich. So I don't know if we're going to give them an answer today, but I do want to address a few things.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah, listen, that's a great point. And I think most men, at a bare minimum, just want to feel seen. They want to feel like the hard work and the efforts that they're putting in in their life is being seen by the outside world. And maybe they do want a little bit of validation from family, friends, coworkers, manager, boss, whoever, right? Because that external validation ends up fueling that individual, right? The other poison just is sometimes there's labels that you place upon yourself, right? Such as the overachiever or the ambitious man. And then you feel like you need to upkeep this facade of just an overachieving person, someone who has success, someone who lives abundantly, someone who has a lot of money. And it is stressful to upkeep a life that either you created for yourself or others created for you. And it's exhausting, right? So we're also gonna unpack that as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Yeah, the one note that I made to myself, not even notes for the show, I made this shit for myself. It's you hear this cliche, ego is the enemy. And on surface, I get it, ego can be the enemy, but I want to take it a step further and say the identity that you create of yourself because of your ego is really the thing you have to kill. It's this idea of yourself that you've created, this marketing packaging that you've created. Everyone I know in today's day and age, 2026, they always say the same thing. That's not a part of my brand. I see young people, 18 years old, 90 years old, interns tell me, oh, that doesn't fit for my brand. What does that mean? That is the identity you've curated and created for yourself online that has tricked you into believing, oh, this is who I have to be all of the time, because I'm now living in the hell that I've created for myself that is the brand and the identity. I am XYZ person. And if I'm not doing XYZ, my 38 followers are not gonna believe me because it's not a part of my brand package. And that's why I believe it's not just ego, it's the identity that your ego creates that you have to kill. And I think that is a central theme in this episode. Rich, if I were to ask you, what's one thing that when people criticize, it triggers you? I'm willing to bet that thing is tied to how you see yourself.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

I mean, for me, bro, one of the things that trigger me is like when I'm working towards something and either my family or friends will just ask a lot of questions about it. You've mentioned this before, yeah. Why? Bro, because I feel like people who haven't pursued things in life before, especially really hard things, won't know the struggle and the hard work that you're putting in to something unless they're in the in the arena themselves, right? Like you're not in the field with me learning how to build the business from scratch. So therefore, how could you criticize what I'm working on? Right? They only recognize the results of the end of all your hard work, right? So, yeah, that that right there, bro, this that trickles me like in a way you wouldn't believe.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Rich, unpack that a little bit more though, because I feel like before we started the show, you were getting riled up thinking about all the comparisons of you to the smoothie guy, or you to one of your girlfriend's ex-boyfriends, and you instantly think to yourself, Well, let me see his stats, let me see his resume, let me see his Instagram, let me see what this guy is about. What is it about knowing that you are a little bit more accomplished than that person that you compare yourself to that confirms what we're talking about today? It's like, oh, I'm not him, so I feel better about myself. Let's take it a step further. What is it about that comparison that may have you feeling like, damn, why am I like that? Why do I even care?

SPEAKER_01 13:05

It's ego, just it's ego, right? Um, just to really brief our listeners on the smoothie story. So yesterday I took my family to the park. Then we went to a smoothie spot, and the guy over the counter was the owner. And we were just shooting the shit, you know, just talking. And he mentioned that he started the business six months ago, and I shared a little bit about my profession. And he said he actually tried to do cybersecurity and he went to like a cybersecurity boot camp, and it wasn't for him, but that he respects the field, and he identified that that wasn't for him. In that conversation, he shared he was 36 years old. I'm 38, so we're not too far.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

So instantly you start squaring your shoulders. Yeah, yeah, I'm already comparison.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

I'm like, damn, 36 years old, and this guy owns a smoothie franchise. I'm like, that's pretty dope. But in my mind, I'm like, nah, bro, he tried to enter my arena of cybersecurity and quit because it wasn't for him. There started to be the sort of like comparison thing in my brain that I started doing. And I'm I'm not gonna say on air that I feel like I'm better than him, but my primal brain was like, nah, bro, like, you know, you have the capabilities of like owning a business too, et cetera, et cetera. And it's funny that this just happens physically. Like, how many times are you at the gym and you're looking to your left and you're looking to your right? And bro, I do this, like, this is terrible to share, but I walk into rooms and I say to myself, like, I could beat that dude up, I could beat that dude up. Like, like just if things went south, like, can I take these dudes down? Like, that's how primal our brains operate sometimes. And I think it all comes back to our ego and feeding our ego.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

So that right there is something in the research that I found, and it's called the comparison paradox. So the same ability that allowed the caveman version of Rich and Justin to get up, look for the catch of the day. You know, you want to get food for your family, you want to provide shelter for your family, you want to protect your family. Your caveman brain looks at other people that are within your immediate vicinity, and it's a paradox because you only know what you're capable of based on what you can see other men doing. So if caveman number three, that lives three huts down, is able to get his wife and kids an elk and he's built a huge fire, naturally, you're gonna be like, damn, I guess that's my potential. I too can go catch an elk and build a massive fire. Meanwhile, your daughter is eating a punk ass rabbit and everybody's shivering in the cold. That is something that comes from prehistoric versions of us. So, in order for us to know our potential of survival, we have to constantly compare ourselves to each other. That is in our wiring. Our research that we pulled from our research pack for this episode is in our wiring. So, what happens is that's how you keep finding out what your potential is because you keep trying to surpass it. This is human nature. We wouldn't be able to move forward as a civilization if we didn't stand on the shoulders and surpass what came before us. But what we're saying is it's a paradox because it's a double-edged sword. That same characteristic that makes you want to achieve more slowly becomes this burden that you have to walk around with all day because you're someone that's constantly overachieving. So your story made me think about that. It's a blessing and a curse at the same time. Now that is a paradox because you're living in it. What if you were the version of rich that didn't achieve more or accomplish more or have bigger goals? Would you be happy with that version of yourself? Or would you rather be the person that doesn't can't get a peace of mind but is constantly working hard?

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Listen, that's who I am. I'm the person that can't get a peace of mind but is constantly working very hard. And you know, just as I started to dissect this problem, I started to really think about like, what is it about our primal brains that constantly needs to like feed this ego and compare ourselves to other people and we don't want to feel ordinary. And one thing that came to mind was every interaction with people and relationships is an exchange of value, right? So think about this from a dating perspective, right? If you're talking to a woman for the first time, you're sharing to her what you do for a living. Why? Because your job and career is tied to your identity. So if she feels like you're someone that can build a home and help you two live prosperously, that is appealing to her. What is the other side of that spectrum, right? She needs to share value that, hey, I can cook, I can clean, I can birth children, I am healthy, right? So I say that to say that ego, self-worth, value, like all this plays into like the concoction of not wanting to feel ordinary because we all want the perception to other people that we're doing amazing things, that we have the best career, that we make the most money, right? So I yeah, I just think that's an interesting angle too.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

No, I'm glad you brought that up because it made me think of this story that I wanted to share. And I'll do a short version of it because it's very, very long. But obviously, I work in music. I work with a lot of artists. If you work with musicians and artists and people that are born and have trained to be on a stage and be appreciated by thousands of thousands of people every day, what happens a lot in that profession, and it definitely happened to me when I was a little younger, was you start gaining validation for yourself by standing next to the stage because you believe it's almost like a parent that their child is extraordinary and they're really good at something ballet, wrestling, basketball, whatever it is. That parent naturally grifts off of the energy and the validation and the appreciation of their kid because they feel like they're involved. But you're not the person on the stage, you're a person standing next to the stage. And I had to get over this dopamine and this IV drip that I would get from always being around artists because I would take myself very serious. And the story that I want to share ends with an artist telling me, get over yourself. You take yourself too serious. And the irony of an artist telling me that was crazy. So I worked with this artist, I won't say their name, but their career didn't go the way we both planned it will go. They were supposed to be a lot bigger, it was supposed to be filling up arenas, and you know, they had a niche following, a pretty good fan base, hundreds of thousands of fans, but not necessarily superstar level. So, anyway, in my development and helping that artist market them, we had a fallout, it didn't work anymore. They went their way, I went my way. I randomly run into this person three years later on Rodeo Drive in LA. And if you know anything about Rodeo Drive, it's the most vain strip in the world. It's nothing but designer stores. And I see this artist coming out of Balenciaga, and I'm going into Balenciaga. And I ran into them, and instantly I felt bad because we didn't accomplish the goal that we had set together. And the artist was wearing sunglasses indoors, and they walked past me, and I was prepared to talk to them, but he just like he just walked right by me. And I was thinking to myself, damn, we worked together for a minute. The fact that he just walked by me and didn't even acknowledge me made me feel away. So in my Napoleon complex ego, I turn around and follow him back out because I wanted to have a word with him. My brain couldn't deal with the fact that he ignored me. So I follow him out to his car. He's with he was actually with one of his friends. And I was like, yo, insert artist name. What's up, bro? And he's like, Oh shit, he dapped me. And I'm thinking to myself, fake motherfucker. Like, I know you saw me. And I was like, yo, I thought I saw you inside. You just came out of Balenciaga, right? He was like, Yeah, I was in there with whoop-ty-woop. And I said, Damn, bro, you just gonna walk by me, act like you didn't see me. He's like, No, no, I swear to God, I didn't see you. I I like I didn't even know you were in there. And I was like, it's cool, bro. I get it. Like, you know, we didn't accomplish what we needed to accomplish together, so you ignored me. And he was like, What? Bro, I didn't see you. Stop taking yourself so fucking serious. And at that moment, I was like, damn, my whole idea of myself was shattered. Like somebody took a hammer to a glass vase, and I died a slow death at that moment. And I've been trying to die that slow death of my identity since then, and that was probably like. Like five years ago, Rich. But that little quote that an artist that is truly talented, truly gifted, truly someone that shouldn't be admired, definitely not an average person, put out music that we all know. And he told me, stop taking yourself so serious. Why do you think that shit affected me so much?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Listen, because we all lived in this self-made ego that and this identity that we carry for ourselves. So the minute that someone uh rattles that ship, right? Or makes you feel like you're not who you think you are, that turns your whole world upside down. You're like, that's a good way to put it. You're not who you think you are. Yeah, that's that's powerful, bro. That's the cautionary tale that we're trying to share with uh, you know, with our viewers today. It's just like there's a lot of things that you want to accomplish. There's a lot of things that you want to work on, you want to pursue greatness, you want to be great at your field, but at the same time, there's going to be a lot of moments in your life where maybe you're not working on much right now. Maybe you're taking a little break and you start to feel like, damn, I'm just regular. I know for an artist, just them feeling regular is like injecting them with poison, right? Because an artist is fueled by his fans and his stardom, right? And them feeling ordinary, them not having paparazzi around to take pictures of them.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

I mean, the whole point of the job is to not be normal. Yeah. Yeah. Like you have literally went through a heartbreak, you know how vain you have to be to go through a heartbreak and say, man, I just got my heart broken. A girl cheated on me. Let me write a song about it for a million people. Like, I wouldn't even be comfortable sharing anything I share here. Imagine being Adele. Imagine being Frank Ocean and sharing your sexual preference with the world. You have to believe that the world needs this. Now, the flip side of that is you put a song out and only gets 500 streams. That's a tough weekend for that artist because it attacks something that is built inside of us that we're not as important as we think we are. And Rich, this also made me think about a pretty funny video that if you get a moment, you should check it out. But I just thought about this. When Mike Tyson was getting interviewed by that little girl, I think her platform is called Jazzy World. Did you see this interview?

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

She asked him about his legacy when he was returning to MMA. I think he was fighting Jake Paul, if I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

And she said, Oh, how is this gonna affect your legacy? And he said, and I quote, to a 12-year-old girl, legacies don't mean shit. I'm gonna die and it's all gonna be over. We're all gonna die. Legacies mean nothing after 20 years. We will be dust. We will be nothing. A legacy is nothing. So I don't think of nothing that way. And though a little fucked up to say that to a 12-year-old girl, and you gotta watch the video, it's hilarious because that little girl's way more mature than I am. She was like, oh, okay. Like, yeah, like she wasn't ready for that answer. But I think in that response from a 60-plus-year-old man who has seen it all and done it all, he had one hidden truth in there, Rich. He said, in 20 years, 30 years after I die, no one's gonna care. None of us matter. We're all dust. Now, that is intense to say, but what comes to mind when you hear that?

SPEAKER_01 25:18

I mean, listen, he might be right, but for me personally, just that doesn't take away the fear that I feel of not wanting to be normal and ordinary. Bro, like I said in the beginning, my family came from nothing. And I vowed a long time ago that I would be the one in the family to try to pursue as many things as possible to get us out of poverty or put my family or my last name in a different situation. So when I think of potentially passing away and people are at my vigil and my funeral, and they have nothing amazing to say about me, like that shit breaks my heart. Cause I'm like, damn, did all my hard work go in vain? Did I just go unseen for the last X amount of years? Like, I couldn't be able to live with that. Maybe that is ego-driven, right? Maybe that's just the identity that I've built for myself. But I personally feel angst when I'm just doing regular man shit. I can't just sit behind a TV and watch a three-hour film because I feel like I'm wasting my time. I feel like I'm being regular and normal. And that normalcy when you're trying to pursue something greater than yourself, I think is uh extremely dehabilitating.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Here's my response, Rich. And I agree with everything you just said, but just for the sake of conversation of the person listening to this, I want to be great. I want to be memorable, I don't want to be for God. But when you're in a pine box, who is that for? It's a deep question. By the way, this is not good for content, but it's good for two grown men to have a conversation. Who is it for? And I think right there, once you ask yourself that question, I don't have the answer, by the way, but I think once you ask that question, everything starts becoming more clear as to am I doing this for me or am I doing this because of what I want people to say about me? Yeah. And I think the more stuff you get into post-30 that is about you, it's no longer about you climbing up the side of a mountain, hoping that everybody sees you climbing up the side of a mountain. It becomes about, man, every now and then I'm gonna look at the horizon and enjoy this climb up the mountain because I am enjoying this climb up the mountain. Now, I do understand how hypocritical we sound given our catalog of episodes to date, but it is something to think about. This is a 400-level failures episode. It's way more nuanced than our very easy to understand. Why is the girl not texting me back? She's not texting you back because you don't wear a deodorant and you live with your mom. Those episodes could be a reels clip, it could be a TikTok clip. Yeah, this one requires a whole book. And the reason why I'm mentioning a whole book is because this is the first time we've ever done this in failures history. Rich, you didn't know I was gonna do it, but there is a book that I read two years ago when I was in LA and I truly did not know why the fuck I was here. But I came out here for a bag of money and a lot of notoriety in my profession. And a lot of the healing and a lot of the understanding of life and this world and my ego, dying a slow death, came from reading this one book. And this is this book is called Finite and Infinite Games. I recommend all of our listeners that are conflicted with this episode to check this book out. Finite and infinite games are about the things that we do that pay today, but they don't pay off tomorrow. And I think where we come from, everything is so urgent. When you come from an inner city and you don't have a lot of money and you don't have a lot of resources, you're living like a primal animal all the time. So everything is short term. You want to just get the money now. This is why a lot of people that come from where we come from, us two included, Rich, we do a lot of ignorant, short-term, illegal shit because we're just trying to figure it out and make ends meet. But those are finite games, a more simpler version of what I mean. I don't know why they titled it that it could be called short-term games versus long-term games. And the thing and the quote that came from that book that I think about is you have to run a race that has a finish line. If you run a race that has no finish line, you are setting yourself up for a life of permanent dissatisfaction. And you're always gonna feel lesser than. And that I think is the 400-level thesis of this specific episode. It's like, what game are you playing? If you're playing an infinite game, cool. You can do this until you die and you'll be fine. But if you're playing a finite game, the trick is that there's no reward. You're literally just burning yourself out, trying to get small wins. And when you play a life of small wins, it's a life that's unfulfilled because you can't be satiated. You could find something to do every day. The question you should ask yourself is all right, if my life is a video game, am I the person holding the controller? Am I controlling my life? Or am I the avatar? Am I being controlled by someone else? If you can't answer that question, chances are you're the avatar. Because someone who's in control of their life could stop playing the game, disconnect the game, and carry on. And that is something that I'm very much conflicted by, Rich, because part of that game is me not being ordinary. I want to be great. I want to be excellent. I want to be one of those ones. But what if that doesn't happen? What if my life is just my life? That's fucked up. Then I start hating my life. You've accomplished so much, Rich. I assume you have that conflict right now.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Yeah, but just where does that come from, though, right? Like that feeling comes from external things that you're comparing your own life to, right? So you just said it. In this game we call life, you need to play your game, right? You can't go on Instagram and see all your friends. This one got a Beamer, this one got a Bentley, this one got a Mercedes, BMW, etc. And you got the Honda, and you're like, damn, I need to boss up, I need to level up, I need to do things that are outside my character to be able to get into a vehicle just like all of my peers. That is the poison that you run into, is when you start modifying yourself and your life and what's real to you in order to keep up with the Joneses, right? And I think that fear, bro, of feeling ordinary, I don't think comes from within. I think it comes from you constantly comparing other people's situation to your own current circumstances.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

You ever ran on a treadmill and thought to yourself, this is fucking stupid. I every time I get on a treadmill, it hits me. I'm like, I would much rather be outside running if I was gonna run. But there's something about a treadmill that you know, like, I guess I gotta do this. You know, I gotta lose weight, I gotta get my steps in. I'm just gonna walk here in place because I know the benefit of it. That's how I feel about what you just said. Life can be a treadmill sometimes where you're just getting up and you're on it, you're doing the thing, and realistically, your body is feeling, or at least my body feels like, man, it would be much cooler to go outside and go for a sprint in the grass or go for a sprint in the middle of a busy street just so I can be moving in real life. Like I would have a goal and objective that it's within reality. To me, a life that's unfulfilled is a life that's like running on a treadmill. It's just constant, in incessant desires. Oh, I want this, I want that, I want to accomplish this, I gotta do this now. It's this constant loop that your brain is in. What's next? What's next? What's next? What's next? That is a treadmill. You're just on this treadmill that has a big bag of money or a carrot or cheese dangling in front of you, and you're just constantly on the treadmill. I'm not there yet, Rich, but I'm slowly starting to see a little bit of clarity in my life where it's like I'm done with the treadmill part of my life. I want to go on sprints, I want to go on hunts, I want to do shit that has a clear goal and a clear objective, kill the fucking elk, eat the meat, be done with that. Move on to my next mission. If you're gonna be on a treadmill, you gotta post every time you're on a treadmill, then that means you want the world to know you're working hard. That doesn't mean you're actually working hard.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Yeah, I mean, listen, that part of your life is you taking the reins of your life. That is the chosen life, right? The other life is the comparison trap, you seeking external validation for everything you're working on. And what you're saying is the chosen life. You chose to derive at a place where I'm going to do things that give me fulfillment. I'm no longer seeking validation from other people or outside sources. And I think that approach is always much more advantageous because you're working on things that you want to be working on for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Yeah, this other story that came up while I was thinking about this episode and how nuanced it is. There's an actor, his name is Jim Carrey. A lot of our younger audience won't know him. He was in the mask and dumb and dumber. Jim Carrey, if you watch his more recent interviews, and they're not sit-down interviews, they're like people in the street coming up to him. And he has a career arc and a life arc very similar to Mike Tyson, that he accomplished so much fame earlier in his career that later in his life he became like this wise person that didn't want the validation from fame. He wanted to just live his truth. He wanted to do things that were challenging to him. But he was like, I don't care about all that other shit. Don't tell me about legacy, don't tell me about Emmys. I don't want to hear about Oscars. If you think I'm funny, cool, that's fine. Support my art, but don't give me the labels that I don't want to wear. And there's an interview that I absolutely love. Somebody walks up to him and they ask him, like, about the legacy and the aura and the man that is Jim Carrey. Oh my God, Jim Carrey, you're this incredible actor. And he told the person asking him questions, like, who's Jim Carrey? There is no Jim Carrey. You created Jim Carrey for me to live up to, but I don't live for Jim Carrey. I'm just me living my life. So good luck on finding this Jim Carrey you're looking for. And Rich, I again, this is a high-level episode. That shit pierced through my body because I was like, fuck. That is what social media is. That is what constantly posting and living in this world that you want to uphold an image, and then you got to be that person all the time. It is a tough spot to be in when you're trying to build something. We're trying to build something right now. So every time you watch a clip or an edit or a video that you cut yourself, Rich, it's almost impossible to look at yourself and be like, damn, I hate how I look in this uh this thing. I hate how I sound. I said um too much, right? Because we're living in the identity of who we are. So if you were to tell yourself there is no rich, I'm just out here living, just trying to enjoy this business that me and my friend are creating, then that's fine. But it it just it's never that simple.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yeah, that's a great point. And when you touch on social media, right, when you're going on there and you're looking at what people are doing, these are curated reels, right? This is carefully packaged, angled image of like women and vacations and accessories, right? And abundance, right? Like you're looking at you're consuming a lot of different content.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

It's hell, bro.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Social media is how, yeah, bro, but it's not real. It's it's the land of make-believe because the people are posting the best angles, the best clothes, the the best vacations, right? And in your brain, you're taking the best life of someone thinking that that's their life every day, right? And then you apply it to yourself, and you're like, damn, I haven't been on a vacation in a long time. I don't drive that car, I can't afford Balenciaga, right? And bro, that shit takes you down such a negative path because circling things back around, that's what musters up the feeling of feeling ordinary and normal and regular because you assume that people who are online showing that they're living their best life is their life every day, and it's not the life that you're living too.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

I want you to stay on this subject, Rich, because I think you've always understood social media at a very high level, but I want our listeners to know the level of clarity that you came to from being in front of the camera. Because now you can feel yourself performing. I know this because you've told me it. It's like it's a little different to be in front of a camera and try to get it right every time, knowing that it's not normal to be 100% right every time. That's not a human trait.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Yeah. Listen, you're right. And the way that I've remedied that is I've I've freed myself, bro. I've freed myself from the feedback. I've freed myself from the metrics of how this content returns back to us. I've freed myself monetarily from whatever comes back from this. We've doubled down and made a bet that we are going to get on camera and be our authentic selves. And that is the ultimate bet that we're placing. So I've removed myself from people making fun of my appearance, my voice, you know, any uh physical features or anything I had to say. Because, bro, I'm giving you my story. If that doesn't click with you, then move on to the next video.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Freeing yourself. This is a good one. This might even be a whole other episode, but stay right there, Rich, because you said that with conviction. You said that shit with your chest. What is it about overachieving or underachieving and the exit door being freeing yourself of what? Is it the judgment? Is it the idea of success that you have for yourself? What are you freeing yourself of?

SPEAKER_01 39:45

All of it, bro. What people think, how people perceive me, the criticism, negative things, you know what I mean? Like being laughed at. Like, I used to be the type of person who cared a lot about what other people thought of me. And like you said earlier, I was the guy who took himself too serious all the fucking time. I've freed myself from that a long time, not a long time ago, but since we've started this platform. Because if you are online posting content, you have to be prepared to be ridiculed. And you have to be prepared for people to talk negatively about you. Why? Because you're taking a risk, you're putting yourself out there. No one asks for you to record yourself and hit publish online. You are putting yourself out there to the world. So it's either going to be received positively and you're going to be rewarded for what you're creating, or people are just gonna shit on you and make you feel like you're foolish, but you'll never know unless you're in the arena. And we're in the arena right now.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

And if you want to know if you're trapped in your social media identity, you want to know if you're not free, is when you're living in a world that is an idea of yourself that you created, it's manufactured. The story you tell yourself that you have to show up as this person all the time, that means you're trapped because you are burdened by the person you think you have to be. So people expect you to be that. You have created your own cinder block prison of identity. You've voluntarily made yourself two dimensions of a person. That's how you know you're not free because of social media. And that is a tough thing to say to people that grew up in a only digital world. I actually feel very bad for any young person under the age of 21 that knows nothing other than the brand that they've curated for themselves online. Because when you create a brand for yourself online and you come home after midnight and your mother whips your ass for being home late, she doesn't give a fuck about your brand. And you're about to get violated. And your idea and this identity you've created to yourself, it totally gets shattered when you're met with reality. It reminds me of a dinner that I just went to with uh a few of my coworkers and this artist that we just signed. When I'm in those artist meetings and I feel good about myself, I feel like, damn, I'm the man, I'm an executive, I'm a music executive. Rich, I swear to you, I was drinking a non-alcohol beverage, and I was only two sips into this beverage, and someone came and grabbed my drink, took it off the table. And instantly, because I was feeling myself so much, and this is literally a fucking week ago. So this is how I know I'm not over this identity of who I am, and I'm not free. I'm not fully free of my ego. The dude just took my drink and walked away. And instantly I was like, bro, who the fuck this guy thinks he is that just took my drink. I'm talking to the artist about it. He's like, nah, nah, you're good, bro. Like, just order another one. I'm like, nah, fuck that. This person might not know who I am. I'm important. Look at how important I am. I'm sitting here with a big artist, bro. Come to find out, I go to the host table because that's where the person was at. And I was like, yo, my man, why'd you take my drink? He was like, Oh, um, I must serve her. I was just clearing out your drink because we're gonna do celebratory champagne for your artist. And I was like, fuck, I didn't even realize that this guy was working here and he was trying to help me out. But in that moment, I felt my identity was challenged. This guy must not know how important I am. Why would he just come and take my drink? I thought it was just a regular dude that took my drink, and it was somebody that was trying to help me. And for those 10 minutes, I was a version of myself that I absolutely fucking hate. And that's why this episode is so important to me. And the social media element is even worse, Rich, because now you're just carving that identity into the ground every day. Every day. You gotta be that person. I watched. Father and daughter tandems on social media that I could almost feel the level of curation and pain that the father has to go through just to get his daughter to do a TikTok dance with him in order for him to crank out five more pieces of content for the week, in order for his platform, Father and Daughter Day, to survive another week. That shit is crazy that we live in that matrix. And it's crazy we brought up Jim Carrey because it reminds me of the Truman show. That was one thing I wanted to mention. You're living in an idea of a world that was created by someone else. Now you're just living in it.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

That's a great point, Jess. And like you said earlier, to me, social media is marketing. And you have to open up any social media app with that in mind. What you're about to consume right now is marketing. Is everyone has packaged this carefully so it appears good for you to click on and watch all the way through. It's all it's designed to do. But to take something that you saw on social media and be like, ah man, I feel some type of way about this, or I need to be closer to this, or I need to have this car, or I need to have this much money, I need to buy this house by a certain date, like all these comparisons that you end up doing for marketing makes you live a fallacy or makes you make changes about yourself that end up being a fallacy. What I would strongly share with our young men is like, bro, take ownership of your life, right? Don't just look at what's happening on social media, don't look at what's happening around you and use that comparison to then modify your life to meet those standards. You're running your own race, you're playing your own game. So, you know, can't emphasize that enough.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Rich, there's one thing I wanted to close on that is a little bit different than everything we've discussed so far. And I think it's important for you because you obviously have a young man in your life that you're raising. And this came from our community. An older guy mentioned this quote, and I just wanted to share it with you. Men are typically praised for their performance. A lot of male overachieving is identity protection. You have a fixed identity that's tied to your results. So most of the time, shame comes from being below average because we teach men that if you are below average, you're not a man worthy of praise. What comes to mind when you hear that?

SPEAKER_01 46:29

I'm conflicted.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

You're conflicted. Yeah. Because it's almost telling your son, like, it's okay if you don't come out in first place. Just grab a ribbon that says I participated.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Yeah. I mean, then we get into the world of like participation trophies. Like, we've built our society around rewarding effort and not necessarily rewarding the actual accolades and the accomplishments of winning. As long as you participated, that's enough. We've leveled the playing field, everyone's normal, right? If you run the race, everyone gets a medal. We're all equal. Nah, bro. Fuck that. If you're not top three and you're not on that podium, you did not win and you don't deserve a fucking medal.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

This reminds me of the episode we did on uh green flags of dating and red flags of dating. And then at the end we say, yeah, fuck the whole episode. If you meet a 10, none of this episode matters. Well, let's get back to this is something that I did want to talk to you as it relates to you as a father. Contingent self-worth and performance-based love. When you think of those combination of words, and these are clinical terms, what comes to mind? Contingent self-worth and performance-based love.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Yeah, I've touched on those before where I have this mentality that unfortunately I feel like young men are loved under the condition that they provide value to a particular relationship, right? And that sort of becomes a poison, right? Because then you're always trying to seek that praise and that love from someone. You're trying to work hard so that your significant other could see that you have value and you're the breadwinner and you're bringing money home. And that, you know, I feel like that only comes by proxy of that.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Yeah, when I hear that, I think of something that I mentioned a lot in the business that I work in, which is an entertainment business. We create products for millions of people. And I've created a phrase that I share with my artists, and that's if you live by the mob, you die by the mob, meaning a mob of people. So if you live and make a living financially off of what millions of people think of you, their opinions of you, you also are at the mercy of what they think of you when you have your lowest moments. That is the mob rule. It's entertainment 101. If you want to be a politician, you live by the mob. If you wanted to be Julius Caesar in ancient Rome, the same people that carried him high on that pedestal and made him their king, well, he didn't get to become king because they killed him right before it happened, but he was pretty damn close. It was the same visibility and the same mob of people that cheered him on on his way up that he had to suffer because they didn't like him on his way down. This is what we're discussing when we say performance-based love, because if your existence, your self-worth is contingent on what other people think of you, then you are only at the mercy of what those people think about you when you're not overperforming. And that's what this episode comes down to. Do you want to be at the mercy of other people's opinions of you? If the answer is yes, then you have to ride that roller coaster up. And then unfortunately, you have to ride that roller coaster all the way down. Feeling like none of your success and sacrifice matters until someone acknowledges it and your love for it is a tough deal for a lot of men. But unfortunately, that's how men are raised. That's how we get love is by performing.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Just if I'm being truthful with our audience, I'm living that today. I feel like my own family, my friends would not look at me the same if I didn't have what I have. If I lost my job tomorrow and the bank account went to zero, I would not be viewed as the same person because I've created this identity for myself. Not that I'm rich by any means, but that this guy is stable and he's a little bit well off, right? Like he has a good career, high-paying job, well educated, etc. But if you remove all those things from the equation and I become ordinary rich, I'm no longer the same person that everyone perceives that I am. And unfortunately, I am tied to the identity that I am the overachiever, that I am the guy who accomplishes things, that I am the guy who has stability, financial stability in his life. So if you strip all those things away, I am no longer the same person.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Damn. We've done a lot of episodes, but sometimes when I play back our episodes for editing purposes or just to listen to them, I can hear the therapy that we're getting for free. And Rich, that was one of those moments. I don't know where that honest moment came from and what story came to mind, and I'm sure you can't share, but I think I can summarize this in a few words, and I'm curious to hear your feedback. So is it safe to say for Rich Sanchez, this isn't about success, it's about the feeling of not being significant, feeling insignificant to your family, feeling unforgettable, feeling like someone that doesn't matter. It's not about success, it's more about feeling insignificant.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

A hundred percent, bro. And wow, that's deep, man. Yeah, and listen, to take it a step further, this is the exact feeling I had pre-birth of Failures Media LLC. I told you, I said, just whatever we work on next has to be it, right? And what did I tell you? I said, bro, I'm tired of feeling insignificant. I have so much information and advice to share with the world, and I don't know how to do that, right? That was one of the conversations we had off air, and that's part of the origin story that is uh failure's podcast. Damn, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Fucked me up with that one. I could feel you holding on to the narrative of like, you gotta push through, you gotta be the man. Alpha, alpha, alpha, alpha. And it was cool. Later in the episode, we caught a real moment because you're saying, no, I'm not gonna lie, bro. I think I'm trapped into this world that I've built for myself. But I think the more important part that you're saying is like, I'm at peace with that. That's okay. I know that a lot of the love and admiration that I get from people is a byproduct of how hard I work.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

Yes. And bro, this is gonna sound extremely toxic, but I view myself as the family's sacrificial lamb, bro. Like, I was on vacation in Aruba checking emails and checking our metrics, and my girl was like, bro, put the phone down. Like, you look miserable. Put the phone down and like smile. You haven't smiled in three days we've been on this vacation. And you know what my response to her was? I'm like, where are we? She's like, Aruba. I'm like, this is what I work hard for. For you guys to be happy. Let me be in my miserable bubble while you guys enjoy the fruits of my labor. Well, that's my payoff, right? You guys are on vacation, having a good time, enjoying the pool, enjoying the beaches, enjoying the food. That's my reward. I don't get to be happy. I get to work hard and give you guys this life.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

I have a similar situation from a few years back. I remember meeting a girl at a very bougie industry event and her best friend telling me, Hey, when are you gonna take my girlfriend serious? I feel like you're not taking her serious. I said, if I wasn't in this room today, you and your girlfriend wouldn't even know who I am. So trust my process. What got me here could change your friend's life. So just understand that you just had to put on a dress and get pretty today and you got invited to this event. It took me 35 years of clawing on the on the other side of a mountain that had no business with me getting to the top of. But trust my process. If your girlfriend is lucky enough to be a part of this story, she's gonna be rewarded handsomely because it's the sacrifice and the dedication that I've given up to this point that has got me in this room and allowed me to meet your friend. Without that, you wouldn't want to know Justin from Hudson County, Dusty Justin working for the city. No one would care about me. No one would even know that I was in this room. So trust my process. The arrow is still going up. But Rich, that is the double-edged sword that we started the show. And I think this is a great way to wrap up the show. It is a double-edged sword because the fruits of the labor are to be enjoyed. They're not just labor. When it's just labor, it's the easiest way to look back at 70 years old and be like, what was all this shit for? I was running a race that had no finish line. I think this is a therapeutic episode because it's a peace of mind. It's another way to look at the things that you accept as challenges. So did you enjoy your vacation a little bit? I hope you did.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

I did, you know, but I think part of the the poison too with this topic, just is like these young men think that they need to be living a bigger life than what they're living, right? Facts. And it's what makes them feel significant and what makes them feel ordinary is that they're not living the life that they thought they would be living at set age, right? You place all these like timetables on your life. Like, I'm supposed to have a kid this age, house this age, this amount of money, this age, career by this age, and all those timetables like that you're forcing your life to like live, is what's holding you back and making you think that you're not living the life that you're supposed to be living. I think you hit the nail right on the head, bro. Yeah. Play your game, run your race. I promise you, you're not living ordinary. Everything is just fine. Just continue grinding and keep doing what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

This is coming from a 40-year-old man who has been through a lot of bullshit and has burdened myself with a lot of expectations that were not worth it after I finally caught the canary that I was chasing for the last five years. I'll be happy when robs you of life's most precious words right now. Right now is what we have to enjoy. And I think that is the point that I've been trying to make this whole episode. For the young man that lives on social media and absolutely hates everything about his current life and is living through an algorithm that is designed to be extreme. You are only seeing the 0.0001% of healthy men with fit bodies. You are only seeing the 0.001% of wealthy young men that have cracked the code to influence her fame. You are only seeing the 0.0001% of young men that are fucking Nepo babies and they have friends and family in Hollywood and they're dating the latest actress's daughter or somebody that you know. You're looking at a micro fraction of reality. That is the problem with social media and this depression that we feel for being underachievers. I'll be happy when robs you of life's most precious words right now. There's only right here, there's only right now. You should enjoy where you're at currently, but that shouldn't suppress your appetite for what you want. I think that's what I'm trying to say. You can be on this treadmill forever, and this treadmill is designed by you. You have so many fucking desires and things you want that you're just constantly on the treadmill. And by the time you look up, you're gonna look like me and Rich. You're gonna look like two fucking unks, 40 years old, 38 years old. And I promise you, this is reporting live from my heart. You don't wanna look like a guy who hates his life, even though you have a life full of accomplishments. And the accomplishments can be external. The accomplishments have to be internal. Am I happy with how much I've done in my life? Trust me, you're not gonna be selling yourself short. You're gonna keep that dog, you're gonna keep that motivation, you're gonna keep that fervor that keeps you moving forward. But it's okay every now and then to look up, see the horizon, enjoy the sun, pay attention to the plants, the dirt, the fucking blood on your hands while you're climbing the side of a mountain that is your life. You can do both at the same time. You don't have to suffer the whole way up. And the reason why I'm saying that, because that is a message that I have to share with myself every morning, Rich. I signed up to be miserable. But I didn't sign up for everybody else to be miserable and understand why I'm miserable. That's fucked up. And I think this broken underachiever, fear of being insignificant, fear of being average, this shit comes from the hell that we put ourselves through, and then we want other people to recognize the hell we're going through. Nah, my boy, that's not how this shit works. If you signed up to be a graduate student and do 10 years of college, stop reminding us about it. Just get your fucking degree and move on. And that's kind of how I feel about myself. I now suffer in pure silence, not the suffering in silence that we did where men are not feeling good about themselves. If I signed up for the marathon, I run the marathon. I train for the marathon and I don't share it on social media. And I'm finding that that shit is way more fruitful for me because I now know that that is only for me. It's not for anybody else. And that's something I learned at 40, Rich. It took me 39 years to unlock this shit. And now I'm happy I did because I'm playing long-term games, not short-term games. I'm working on my internal scorecard, not what other people, what I want other people to see in me. And it's gonna take a long time before anybody could get there, but I hope you get there because it's helped me so much. It's cleared my mind of a lot of bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:39

Damn, that's amazing. There you have it, man. Failures podcast. As usual, man, another week in the books. Uh, like Justin says, we're not selling you anything, we're just really here to help young men navigate life's challenges, trials, and tribulations. If you guys want to hit us up, hit us up at failures media on any social media platform. And we're also on YouTube, man. Subscribe to the YouTube and check out more content. Peace.