SPEAKER_01 0:02

You suffer the tax of competence if you can't go to anyone else when you're in crisis but everybody comes to you. But if the dynamic flips, where do you go when you need help? If you're there for everybody, who's there for you? If you're busy making sure everybody else is not drowning and you're carrying everybody to shore and you're swimming with one arm, what happens if everyone gets too heavy? You sink first. You have to save yourself before you save anybody else. Failures Podcast. Today we're talking about the quiet crisis of young men drowning in plain sight. This is a heavy one. We're talking about men who are trying to figure out how to deal with this dark feeling, this loud hum in the back of their minds as they go through their day. Being a father, being a friend, being a student, being a protector, being what you need to be to your family, but you feel this loud hum, this dark feeling. This episode is about how a man really feels deep inside versus how he's allowed to feel in public without judgment from society. We were able to go through a lot of research for this episode because it touches on a very dark and real and honest issue. For every one human who has ever thought about taking their own lives, 10 men have already thought about doing it, and four have already done it. Think about that. And the worst part is the gap every year keeps getting wider and wider. 80% of suicides in the US are men, yet this number is not slowing up at all. Doctors seem to have trouble addressing this epidemic with prescriptions. Therapists are having trouble solving this issue because how much can therapy actually do? It's case by case. These issues are unique to each person. Most people online, most professionals who've written about this say there really is no cure. It's case sensitive. Mothers and fathers are having a lot of troubles with this issue. Friends can't solve it, loved ones can't solve it. Why? Why is this issue treated so lighthearted and non-urgent in the media? There's a lot of questions I had doing research on this episode. Rich, men's health is overlooked. No one can debate that. The numbers prove it. But the real question we want to get into today is why is that? Why does society overlook male pain? Have you ever been through this, Rich? Can you relate to this guy in this episode?

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Man, just this is a real heavy one, bro. And I can absolutely relate to the man listening to this episode if he's feeling like the world feels heavy and he's going through a lot of difficulties in life. And, you know, it's hard to process all of your emotions as a man when you're going through life and you're navigating different circumstances and you're solving for different problems. The world tends to feel a bit heavy and burdensome. And bro, I can reflect on a time when I was 26 years old. My son was about two years old, and I was going through an active custody battle between me and his mom. And, you know, there was Difus was involved. It was like a very, very messy situation. And I just remember one moment being alone in my room, just thinking to myself, like, damn, if I ended it today, like, would anyone care? Is this the solution? Could all my problems go magically just go away from one day to another if I made that decision? And that was probably one of the lowest points of my entire life. And fortunately, I didn't make a terrible decision of ending my life, but I course corrected and I thought to myself, there's a lot to live for. And I know this pain feels immense and it feels like there's no solution and there's no way out. But if you just stay a little bit resilient and you're able to process through all of these different emotions, I promise you that things look better on the other side. Damn. Damn, I didn't know that, man. And it's not something I share often because it's part of my story, but it's part of the story of my life that I've sort of shied away from just because it feels so personal to me. But I felt the need to share that because I feel like there's a lot of different moments in life where a man feels that dark feeling, just that dark feeling of like, man, if if I ended today, would anyone care? Like, I can't bear to feel this pain any longer. We spoke about on an earlier episode the story of Robin Williams. And if you remember, we were like so confused as how someone who appeared to have all the success in the world, all the accolades, all the talent, and all the happiness that he brought others feel so lonely and dark inside. And we just remembered that in sharing that story of Robin Williams, that man, there's a big difference between how you might show up for the world versus how you feel internally inside.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

So now that right there is the gray area. It's the space that this episode we hope lives in because there is the performance of the male in the public with his friends, family, sports team, co-workers. You know, when guys are around other guys, there's this expectation to act like nothing's wrong, and that's fine. But these numbers and the amount of men that have decided to take their own lives, they're insane, Rich. These numbers are staggering. We're talking about for every one person that decided to take their life in the past 20 years, there is five men that have already done it. That's a five times ratio. That's crazy. That means when you're in a room with 10 men, you have to believe one or two of these guys have already thought of this. And the staggering note is male loneliness, depression, and men taking their own lives are at crisis levels. This is an epidemic, and it has been year over year for the past 10 years. And I would have never known that if we didn't do a show like this to really get under the hood. So that gray area, Rich, I want you to discuss that a little bit because I think that's what you were saying in the beginning. I can say that I've never taken it that far, but I can see how that dark headspace can lead someone there.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Yeah. I think a lot of young men end up falling in that dark headspace. There's like a ratio of like how dark you allow your mind to get when you're in a negative headspace, right? Like you can either live in that dark negative headspace for a while and marinate in that negative headspace, and it becomes more difficult to find solutions on how to get out of that negative headspace, or you can quickly pivot and try to distract your mind and try to do something else to get you out of that negative headspace. And bro, I think you hit the nail right on the head. I don't think that there's a solution for this problem. Like this, that number, that 80% number, is a state of emergency, just we've said this on a previous episode. That is a state of emergency. Men have not solved for loneliness, depression, how to navigate life's difficulties, right? And hopefully we can shed some light as to how we've navigated how we've been in dark head spaces before and how we've pivoted to a much lighter head space moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yeah, Rich, I do want to educate our community on how we came up with this subject for this episode and how we, you know, we go back and forth throughout the week and we just basically comb through all the responses and engagement and comments and community notes that we have on our platform. And we try to like figure out what is it that's resonating with our community and what comments are we reading, and how should we feed the community based on what they're saying? And the way this episode came about, and it's again, it's a gray area episode that we honestly haven't seen anyone in the self-male help category on YouTube or podcast. They haven't really discussed it because I think it's a little nuanced. It's a it's an episode that doesn't necessarily have a prescription or a remedy. And that's something that we discussed, Rich, that we're not afraid of getting into subjects that don't have a very clear top 10 ways to solve this problem roadmap. And I want to be clear out the gate, there is no cure for what we are talking about. There is no immediate, permanent remedy for what we're talking about. There is no prescription that's going to guarantee that this feeling goes away. So I just wanted to make that disclaimer off top, and I wanted our community to know that we are reading all the comments and we go through everything so we can give you content that could be helpful. And I think that's what this episode is really about. It's for the young guy sitting in his car for the last 20 minutes and he doesn't want to go home. And he just wants to sit in silence, and he has this hum going through his head of darkness. And we don't have the answer, but we want to be helpful in sharing our own stories and walking through what we think would be the best way to help with this issue.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah, just listen, that guy that stays in his car for 20 to 30 minutes parked in his driveway is me just on a weekly basis. Yeah. And that's not to say that I'm not happy with my life or I'm not happy with what I've built for myself. I'm very content. I obviously want more, but I'm very content with the life I've built for myself. But what those 20 minutes, 30 minutes allow for me to do is just be in my own thoughts. It's just one-on-one with me. And I get to check in on myself, check in on my feelings, how I'm showing up, right? Like I have to program my brain to walk through that door and be a protector, be a provider, be a father, be a husband, hold down the household. These are all things that I'm just reaching up and gasping for air before I have to go and do that action. And it's never a bad thing to have a little reset with yourself. I think that's what allows you to have composure in your life and, you know, ultimately show up for the people that you care about the most.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah. I mean, Rich, I do want to get into certain parts of this topic that I think could be helpful for someone that is listening and just kind of needs that community just so they don't feel alone. And I wanted to start where basically where the inspiration of the episode came from, and it came from our comment section. I don't know if you remember this, but we had said something about a young guy staying home and loneliness becoming a loop that is a snake eating its tail and it's an endless loop. And one dude in the comment section said something that was kind of funny. It got the most likes and it got the most engagement. And it was weird to us because it was such a serious thing that we were talking about, and it was a funny joke about the guy that was going through something serious that got the most engagement. And right under that, there was a comment that basically kicked off this whole episode, which the young man said, No one takes male depression serious. Even right now, I'm in a dark place reading this comment of everyone laughing at my pain. But society only mobilizes for the loudest crisis. But what I'm going through is suffering in silence. I have to ask here, because I know there's people here that will read this. What should I do to help myself? That was it. That was basically what started this whole episode.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah, I mean, listen, I think that's super interesting how people are just commenting and expressing themselves on how they truly feel about these topics. And I think you're absolutely right. Just it's such a weird nuance how the world and society expects you to show up as a man. And you have all these expectations placed upon you, and you're expected to be strong, you're expected to be firm, you're expected to lead, you're expected to protect, provide, overcome, be strong, and never show vulnerability. And I think that that pressure that you feel externally from the world is part of what has meant falling into a depression. Because if you can't meet those external expectations of you, then naturally you just start to feel small and feel like you're you're confined in your own thoughts and feeling like you're inadequate. And that can contribute to putting men into this negative headspace.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Yeah, man. Another line that I pulled from our community, and I just wanted to read it, Rich, and I want to get your visceral reaction from someone that said this. And I want to know what your response to them would be is a man could be drowning, and people will still stand there on the shore and tell them to swim harder. I personally don't feel like I'm in a crisis. I personally never really broke down crying or made a big thing of it. But what I do know is that day over day I'm becoming more numb. I just feel like I'm disappearing into the background.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

I think naturally we just bottle in our emotions, just we're not told, especially from where we come from, right? Like the Latino American community, we were told to be strong, to man up. Men don't cry, right? And we grew up with that mentality, right? So we just hardened year over year, and everything defaulted to just be strong, be strong, be strong. And it gets to a point when that's part of your DNA. That's all you know. All you know is to be strong and be numb. So when it comes time for you to be a little bit vulnerable and let go and show a little bit of vulnerability, you never do it because you're numb. You're numb to uh emotions, you're numb to negative circumstances, you're you're numb to things that are going on around you. And I don't think that's the answer either, because I think part of why a man ultimately ends up deciding to kill himself is because he's numb. Yeah. And the pain is just overwhelming. And he feels like no one thing can get him out of that feeling that he feels, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah, Rich. Just kind of going through this intro and and really living with the headspace this young guy is in, it reminded me of something that I I think I forgot. Honestly, one of my younger cousins, may he rest in peace, he passed away really young. And there's a debate whether or not it was an overdose or something happened. But if what I think is real, he could easily have fallen into this category of young men who have either contemplated taking their lives or used so much drugs to numb the pain, and accidentally what came of it was his death. And I remember, and the idea just came to me. Like I I I actually forgot about this. But we were at his funeral, and I remember being with my brother and my father. And for those who know nothing about me, I was raised by a father named Macho and a brother named Machito. These are not their government names, but these are their nicknames. If you couldn't imagine a group of guys, not to mention the greater village who are all my uncles and my friends, but who raised me to take all the pain and conflict and emotional feelings and just kind of stuff it back down. It would come from growing up in a place where being overly emotional or overly expressive about how you feel could be seen as a weakness. And I actually don't disagree with how I was raised given the circumstances. But at my cousin's funeral, we're all there mourning, we're sad. If you've ever been to a funeral, there's a lot of quiet downtime. I remember thinking to myself, like, damn, man, like he was so young. Like, I wonder if anyone ever asked him, you know, how he was feeling, what he was going through. And I remember I started bawling up a little bit. Like I was crying, but I was crying like on the side. And I remember one of my uncles coming up to me and being like, Lo hombre no lloren, like uh grown men shouldn't be crying. And I should, I cleaned my tears up quick and I just kind of, you know, man up, chin up, chest high, shoulders back. But now that I think about it in that moment, I was wondering, like, man, that was an opportunity for me to share something real, something that was actually bothering me. And the response I got back from the world around me was don't be vulnerable. Vulnerability is weakness. Man up, take that beach ball, put it back under the water. But you know what happens to beach balls when you push them under the water? They pop right back up in weird ways. So I didn't prep that story. I just thought of it because I remember that moment, Rich. And it's ironic that my cousin, who was younger, a younger guy, passed away early, and I was being taught that lesson.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Yeah, listen. And unfortunately, that's part of the conditioning that we grow up with, right? This is what we were taught is that men need to be strong, men don't cry, and you need to meet these criteria in order to be considered a man, right? Like that was the conditioning that we grew up in. And unfortunately, I feel like this is not so black and white, right? In the sense that I do tend to agree that showing too much vulnerability can also be a negative thing. That's a great point.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

We have to point out the nuance because if you're a follower of failures, this could be hypocritical if you're looking to find us sounding like people that are lying to our viewers, which we're not. This is a nuanced conversation.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yeah, exactly. So too much vulnerability, I think, is also not good because people tend to exploit vulnerabilities and people will identify those weaknesses and potentially prey upon you, right? So I don't encourage people to be ultra too vulnerable, right? Just wear all your feelings on your sleeve. I don't think that's what we're saying. At the same time, we are not recommending that you bottle everything in to the point where that cup of emotions overfills, and then you take a drastic, tragic decision by ending your life, right? There's two extremes in this conversation, and we should definitely unpack this, just because I feel like each has its own place. And I think the nuance is knowing when to be vulnerable versus knowing when you should suppress some of your feelings.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Yeah, I I think even more nuanced than that is just asking yourself a simple question. If you're someone going through a lot, you can ask yourself one simple question. If I had nothing to offer someone else, but I needed them to pick up the phone if I called them, the no strings attached to the sponsor, the person in your life that will always show you empathy and listen to you and receive you where you're at, and not try to burden you with their responsibilities, their stress, their anxiety. That in the narcotics anonymous community and the alcoholics anonymous community, that's called a sponsor. You should have a sponsor in your life, just one person that you know you can pick up the phone with no strings attached and just vent to them and tell them, hey man, I'm not in the best place and I don't know what to say about it or what to do about it, but I'm going through something right now. And I just wanted to hear someone else's voice so I wasn't alone. Now I know that sounds easier said than done, but I think my hope with giving that piece of advice for the person that's going through this very vulnerable moment is that one, you're not oversharing on social media or sharing with people who truly don't really have a way to help you. And two, is that you're identifying for the right person in your life. And again, the way you identify and recognize that person is a person that is going to be there for you, listen to you, guide you through this situation, or just be someone to talk to without strings attached. I can be someone that is seen as a realist or too much of a realist. But growing up the way I grew up, and I just explained the kind of guys that I was raised with, there are a lot of consequences to showing a lot of vulnerability, at least the way I grew up. So I can stand by a lot of these old school, strong and silent types ideologies. I actually Don't disagree with them. I actually think it made me a better person. But for a moment like this, just find one person that's not your significant other, is not your mother, a friend, someone that you truly can go to and pick up the phone and ask them, hey man, you got a minute? I just want to talk to you about something. Because a lot of human relationships come with baggage, come with strings attached. And you have to be able to distinguish the ones that have strings attached versus the ones that don't. The ones that don't, they can be a good sponsor in your life. They could be someone that can help you get through tough moments. And by the way, that person doesn't have to give you a solution. Just letting it out sometimes is enough. That is the type of vulnerability that I think I would like to see from the guys in our community, Rich. It works for me. I'm not sure if it works for you, but I don't know if that's what you were trying to say. But I wanted to be more specific with vulnerability because it can be overdone.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

I agree with you. And I think that's great advice. And, you know, part of what you said that we should unpack and highlight is that it's more advantageous for you to find that person, find that sponsor that you can vent to with no strings attached because you know there's no repercussions when you share personal things too. For me personally, that's my brother, right? I vent to my brother, he vents to me, we cope together and we keep moving forward. What happens is for the people who don't have the mentor or sponsor or brother or father, they revert to the internet and to Reddit and social media, thinking that this is an outlet for you to receive therapy. But what ends up happening is you actually end up getting ridiculed and you fall deeper into a depression because now you have hundreds of thousands of people opining on your vulnerability, right? Yep. But you invited the world to your pain. Yeah. And now you want to feel worse for doing so. So I think that's the cautionary tale that I would share with young men is like, to your point, just don't overshare your pain and vulnerabilities on the internet because the internet is not a nice place for people who want to vent and feel vulnerable about something.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Yeah, I would say when it comes to feeling depressed, sad, this deep, deep hollowness of brokenness, there are three layers to getting out of that hole. And what you can't do is confuse self-improvement with cosmetic repair. What do I mean by that? Self-improvement is is deep, it's internal, it's fixing the problem from within. If you looked at this problem like a bed of dirt, above the dirt is the flower, it's what people can see. That's the external. The self-improvement that's internal is the weeds, it's what's under the ground. And if you truly, truly, truly want to make a difference in your life and you want to take a step in the right direction, you have to do that internal self-improvement. And a lot of that internal self-improvement comes with work that people really can't see. Whatever that is to you, you know it. But when you're performing it, when your external is trying to get validation for what you're doing, that's where the problem lies, is that you're going online to get validation from people so they can see that you're making strides in your improvement. Now, I know the person that we're talking to in this episode is a very delicate man, is a man that's going through a lot. So it's not in my best interest or Rich's best interest to attack them, but this is not an attack. This is literally identifying the core issue within the core issue, within the core issue. And that core issue is understanding the difference between performative development and external development, and truly, truly developing your self-improvement from within. And how do you do that, Rich? You have to have an honest moment with yourself. You have to really think what is the problem that I am trying to solve. And once you find that problem, don't confuse a prescription of solving that problem with a solution. A prescription is just a means to an end. I have a headache. The prescription is a Tylenol, it numbs the pain. But once the prescription goes away, you still have that headache. Don't let the prescription be the reason why you live. And I think this is the 400-level, more nuanced conversation that Rich and I had off-air in the pre-show meeting that we should discuss here, Rich, because we've learned that a lot of this male self-help grift is selling young men prescriptions. And the prescription is never going to solve your problem if your problem is a long-term problem. And I don't know, Rich, I know you loved that angle, but I really didn't get to hear any feedback in the pre-show meeting. Why is it that you agreed with this angle for today's show?

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Listen, I think to your point, there's a lot of grifting that goes on, just and it's advantageous for other creators to have men stay numb, right? Because if you're numb and you're constantly looking for a solution to that numbness and that pain that you feel, well, they'll keep selling you a prescription. They'll sell you another video to watch, they'll send you uh an affiliate link to BetterHelp so that they can get 10% and you can get temporary therapy, right? Like it's all a Ponzi scheme at the end of the day. To your point, Just, the best thing you could do for yourself is self-reflect, self-identify what are the underlying issues that are happening in your life and are contributing to this pain and suffering that you might be feeling.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

The best way to describe the difference between a prescription and a permanent solution is a prescription is a man that looks insanely fit, big ass biceps, big ass shoulders, fit man, strong man. Optically, a man who has it together. But deep inside, that man is rotten from within. He has a condition internally that no one could see, but it could be fatal. It could kill them in two or three years. What's the point of looking like you have it together externally if internally you're rotting from within? That is the difference between a treatment and a permanent solution. We have to try to figure out what the problem is so we can solve it forever. Because if you're rotten from within, if you're sick from within and people can't see it, you're not taking care of the core problem. You're taking care of the cosmetic problem. And the cosmetic problem is a false signal to people who could even help you because they think you have it together. Rich, we actually spoke about this off air. This idea of being the rock, being the stoic guy who people can depend on. But deep down inside, all the fucking warning signs, the sirens are ringing. Your brain is going crazy. You have an emergency, but outside, people can see, no, this guy's calm. Nothing's wrong. I could put more pressure on him. I can give him more of my responsibilities. What's the issue there? Because I feel like a lot of men in our community also have that problem, especially the older guys who are dealing with a lot.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Shit, I have that problem, just that is me. Wow. Right? Like I'm the problem solver. I am the guy that the whole family goes to, that my girl goes to, that my children goes to, and my coworkers goes to. Like I'm the guy you go to to solve problems, and you know, I'm that shoulder to lean on, which, you know, is not necessarily a bad thing, right? It's positive when your tribe looks at you like you're the guy to get them out of a crisis. The problem is, to my point earlier, when that cup overfills and you're juggling everyone's issues along with your own, it becomes overwhelming and burdensome, and that cup does end up overflowing. And that's how you fall into a negative headspace. So I've had to play a lot of mental gymnastics for me to figure out who I can help, who I can't help. How do I help myself? Like I have to show up for me just before I could show up for everyone else. Like that is the genesis of part of this topic is like you have to take care of you before you balance everyone else's responsibilities or expectations of you, right? Man, I I just I thought of something where, you know, two relationships ago, I was in this headspace where I felt like I had it all together, right? Like I had money, I had a house, I had a car, I had a good job. Like to the external world, I had all these material things that appeared like I was doing well for myself. But inside, I had just gone through a breakup. I wasn't at my best. I had told my ex-girlfriend some things that should have never came out of my mouth. And I seek therapy for it, right? And what therapy allowed me to do was just really highlight like, hey, there's flawed things about your personality that could be improved. So I had to do some self-assessment and internalize that. Damn, I should have approached this conversation differently, or like, damn, there's certain things you shouldn't tell a woman, or comments you shouldn't make about a woman's weight, or or just a lot of different things that help you show up in a different way. And I had to take two scoops of my own home cooking, which is sharing advice to young men, and look from within and remind myself that listen, we're not above anything. Just because someone appears to have it all doesn't mean that internally everything is well put together. They're still a flawed individual. And at the end of the day, I feel like we're all flawed individuals just trying to navigate life struggles.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Yeah, Rich, I want to unpack the being Mr. Fix It for your family or the rock in your family. I want to unpack that one a little bit more because I know that is something that you take pride in. I've known you for a long time. This is something that is a part of your identity. And when you hear the issues and the community notes that we read earlier, talk a little bit about how the curse of competence and being the rock for everybody else, how that can be a double-edged sword. And how, if you don't address that, how it can end up in a bad place for the person that is the rock for everyone else.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yeah, I can totally relate to this. It's it's heavy, Jess. It's it's a heavy burden to carry, right? Like in one end, you feel thrilled and excited that you could be this godly resource for your entire family and your friends, and they hold you on this pedestal and this high regard that, man, we're so lucky we have a person like Rich in our life because he's able to take care of a lot of our different issues, or he gives us great advice, or he can help us financially, whatever the case may be, right? Like it is great to feel competent amongst your tribe at the same time when there is no filter to the requests and the ask of me, and I have to constantly show up for everyone 24 by seven, 365. Eventually that cup overfills. And, you know, we had a whole episode on people pleasing. I found myself falling into the people pleasing category for the sake of not letting anyone in my family down. And I was feeling some type of way, feeling a little depressed, feeling like, damn, I'm starting to do things that I didn't want for myself or things that I didn't sign up for for the sake of keeping others happy. But, you know, too much of that can ultimately lead you down in a in a negative head space. And I think that's the that's the nuance and that's the cautionary tale, right? It's like it's cool if you could do things for your family, but when it becomes too much, when you're that rock that everyone depends on, and the burden that you carry of just being there for everyone all the time, like can also put you in that negative head space.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Damn. Rich, I didn't know when we got to this segment that this is something that was gonna speak to you directly. But while you were unpacking it, I just kind of thought to myself, like, man, I have to imagine a lot of young men out there are carrying a lot of responsibilities. They're conflicted, they're going through a lot in their lives, they either have relationships or they want to be in relationships, sure their parents have expectations for them. And I was just trying to think of like a clever way to summarize what this thing is. And I just kind of took a step back and thought to myself, like, oh, I have a phrase for this because I use it in my own life every day. I use it at work. It's called the curse of competence. And the curse of competence is just the tax you have to pay for being the person that people go to to get direction. You know you're paying the tax of competence if everyone goes to you for every problem, if you're the protector of everybody else, you suffer the tax of competence if you can't go to anyone else when you're in crisis, but everybody comes to you. But if the dynamic flips, where do you go when you need help? If you're there for everybody, who's there for you? If you're busy making sure everybody else is not drowning and you're carrying everybody to shore and you're swimming with one arm, what happens if everyone gets too heavy? You sink first. And I think that is the premise that is so important to our listener. You have to save yourself before you save anybody else. And we're not saying that to be one of those platforms that is like putting more pressure on you. What we're saying is in order to get more, you got to take more off of your plate. And the only thing that matters right now is you really take a moment in your life to sit and reflect. Damn, if I keep pouring my cup, the little bit of water that I have in my cup, into everybody else's cup, where does that leave me? That leaves you with an empty cup. And when you have an empty cup, that's when those dark thoughts start kicking in. Because you haven't done anything for yourself to help yourself. You might feel a little behind on your finances because you've helped other people with money. You might feel a little bit behind on your health, you feel a little overweight, you feel you don't feel good because you've donated all your time to everybody else so they can feel good about themselves. When was the last time you've done something for yourself to boost your own spirit, boost your own morale? You have to really understand when you are the most competent, the world will tax you for that. But you have to put an embargo on your time. You have to get a little more selfish so you can take care of yourself. And here's the news flash to everybody in your family, all your coworkers, your boss. Hey, man, if I take care of myself in a few months, I'm gonna be two times better than I was before because I can now pour myself into everybody else. So don't let the curse of competence be a tax on your life that kills you. And I'm not saying that to be cute. I really mean that. We have the numbers here. This shit is really having an effect on people. And you don't know where it's coming from because everybody's situation is unique. Rich, I can think of a million stories of where I felt like the world was on my shoulders. And I just wanted to fucking hit a jack, shut off my phone, and get away from everybody. But sometimes most men don't have that option.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Just that is such a great point. And man, I'm gonna share something that I'm almost embarrassed to admit. But I think all throughout my 20s, just I never took care of my mental health. I didn't even know that was a thing that you had to take care of. I just thought if I stayed fit, if I had the most money, if I worked hard and built this great life, like everything would just fall into place. It wasn't until I reached my 30s that I was like, oh, wait a minute. Like, there's another aspect to like being a healthy human, and that's taking care of your mental health, like giving it maintenance, like being in a good headspace, being in a positive mood, having good personality traits. Like, bro, I had I was oblivious to this like sector of like human health.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

I'm sorry, I'm laughing, but it's crazy. I'm embarrassed to admit it. No, listen, it's crazy when you really think about it, Rich. Most of the stuff about like macros for when you eat macronutrients. I was in my 30s when I found out that protein, carbohydrates, and fats and the ratio of these pro of these things can truly swing your health in ways that I would never know. It's crazy to think that people like us were walking this planet all the way till our 30s and never thought to themselves, mental health, get the fuck out of here. I gotta pay rent. How am I gonna be worried about mental health when my whole family is in a fucking financial hole? When everybody is depending on me. I got little brothers to take care of, I got little sisters to take care of. What is a mental health? It's crazy to believe that we come from a place that that was a normal thought, Rich. So I'm sorry I laughed. I didn't mean to laugh at your pain, which is ironic because that's what this episode is about. But it was ironic that you brought that up because I related so much. Like I remember thinking, like, fuck out of here. Mental health. What is that? Here we are, bro. Here we are. Did you prioritize that? How did you get out of that?

SPEAKER_00 40:01

First of all, I had to learn what preserving my mental health even meant. So I had to educate myself.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Just a combination of words you didn't even know. Let me ask a question. What did you think that meant when those words came up when you were younger?

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Just I used to think mental health was happy, sad. Like I didn't know that there were all these intricate nuances about men's mental health. And I had to do my own research. I had to learn about these things as an adult in my 30s, which I'm ashamed to say. But, you know, unfortunately, I educated myself on this. And what I found in my research just is everything is connected. So you mentioned like macros in food, right? Like how you operate and how you live your life and your lifestyle is a concoction of what contributes to your mental health too. For example, if you are the type of individual who goes to Burger King three times out of the week, I guarantee you that by that third day that you're eating Burger King, you're going to feel like shit. You're going to look in the mirror and not be happy with what you see. And I promise you that that will contribute to the depression and the pain that you might be feeling. Because if you look in the mirror and you're not happy with what you see, bros, that is the first step in sort of like that depression timeline, right? If we're calling it something. The depression timeline is like you look yourself in the mirror, you're not happy with what you see. You look at your circumstance, you're not happy. You look at your job, you don't get paid enough, you're not happy. And it's just a timeline of just negative things throughout your life that ultimately lead to the ultimate pain of depression.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Yeah. Rich, I do want to imagine that the young man that when he hit play on this episode went for a long walk or probably went for a long car ride and, you know, just wanted to sit with two grown-ass men. I'm 40 years old, Rich is 38 years old, that have been through a lot. I I can bore you with a lot of stories when I felt like I was at the brink of many edges in my life. And my whole life has not been pretty. Most of it has not been pretty. It actually makes me nervous when things are going right for me because I'm so used to living in a backpedal, in a constant backpedal, looking around, head on a swivel. Because most of my life I've lived in fear with stress and anxiety. So this hum that you hear in the back of your mind, it doesn't go away. It's just something you got to learn how to get ahead of. You got to learn how to address. You got to learn how to get through your days, even though you're going through this. And just know you're not alone. You're not somebody who's broken. You're not somebody who's weak. If this many people that we cited earlier in the episode are going through the same thing, how can you believe that you're alone? You're not alone. So for me, what I do, and it's a very simple, simple thing that I do whenever I'm feeling that feeling of darkness and sadness and loneliness. And I don't feel like my life is living up to the expectations I set for myself. What I typically do is, and I hope the guy that's listening to this has an opportunity to do this, is ask yourself a question. What's the one thing that I've been carrying around in my head? A dark thought that I've been carrying around in my head, something that I've been dying to tell someone. What is that thing? Give yourself a minute. Don't rush, just think about that. And either go in your notes app of your phone and just write it down. Just start writing down what you're thinking. You could even text to speak, just start speaking to your phone. And what I would recommend is take a summary of whatever you just wrote down and find that person that we spoke about earlier in the episode, a sponsor, somebody that you trust. It's about trust, no strings attached. A relationship that's not your girlfriend. It's not your best guy friend who you hang out with and you guys have a lot of strings attached. It's not your coworker. It's not your mom. It gotta be someone that you trust. And you can send them that note. Hey man, I got a lot on my mind. Just wanted to share this with you. You don't even have to respond. I just wanted to get this out. You'll be surprised to see sometimes just getting it out and sharing it with somebody you trust and love. It would lighten the weight of the world that you have on your shoulders. And to me, that's the first easiest non-drug taking, non-only fans watching, non-video game playing, non-indulging in greasy foods while watching episode 13 of a TV series. None of that shit. None of that cheap dopamine shit. Just get this demon out of your body and share it with somebody. A real person, not an AI chatbot that doesn't count. A real person. And you'll see how the world is very empathetic when you speak your truth. But don't do it on a public forum because people are very mindful of the theater and the theatrics that go into publicly sharing something. Don't do it, just share it with one person. And if you don't have that person, try and find that person in your life. Work tirelessly to find that person you can trust to share this with. If not, there are private communities that you can go to. Listen, if you are actually at the edge right now, you can call or text 988. It is a service that is basically designed to help people that feel like they're on the brink. Text 988 and you'll see. People out there do care. People out there do want to help. Do not make or take extreme measures and stop numbing yourself. This is the one thing you have to stop doing because you're not addressing the problem. Back to what Rich and I said earlier. There's a big difference between prescriptions and solutions. Make sure what you're looking for is a permanent solution.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

100% agree. And we're definitely going to add the number in the captions too, because resources are always extremely important. Just you said something that triggered a thought that I think we should definitely unpack. You said that you and I didn't grow up from the best circumstances, which is absolutely true. And I feel like if I'm putting myself in the headspace of a young man who feels the same way we felt when we were younger, I would imagine that this individual didn't have the best circumstances either. And it's interesting how your environment and environmental factors about your upbringing also contribute to like this negative headspace. So we did a whole episode on like the fatherless trap, and is our highest viewed episode. And we realized that our entire community related to that episode because it invoked the emotion of growing up without a father. I grew up without a father. My father left when I was two years old. So it's interesting how your environment naturally forces you to build up a wall and a guard. And you almost innately feel like you can't be vulnerable because you've built this wall so damn high from the moment you were a young toddler to the moment that you're a man now, that no one can pierce through this wall that you've built for yourself. And it all started with your environment, your circumstances, your upbringing, and the protection layer that you built for yourself over time. That contributes to the numbness and the lack of vulnerability that men share as they get older.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

Yeah, I mean, Rich, I appreciate you sharing that. And I know the suffering and silence episode was a heavy one. I know the father's episode was a heavy one for both of us. But every situation is unique. And the best way I could frame it to the young man listening to this podcast, even a grown-ass man, is that everyone has a story. And no one is right or wrong, or one story outweighs the other. Black, white, Latino, everyone has a story. Rich, poor. I've heard it all. I've seen it all. Nobody is above anybody else in terms of the narratives that play endlessly in their mind and either justify why they do the negative things they do or overcompensate why they don't do what they know they need to do. Myself included, I constantly tell myself stories. And personally, the best way I can cope with these stories that I keep telling myself of things that happened in the past is the past is a fucking lie. We keep telling ourselves stories to give ourselves a reason to exist now, a reason to exist in the truth that we live in now. So if you fell short at some point in the last year of something you wanted to accomplish, notice how these stories keep playing in the back of your mind to help you deal or get through with this situation you're in. And again, this is probably not the right episode to be discussing this mental trick that I play on myself, but I find it to be helpful because when I'm being hard on myself or when I'm being negative, or when I'm in a headspace that is not a very positive one, I have to kill the stories that I tell myself. Simply put, everybody has their own dragon that they gotta slay. And the best way to slay that dragon is to understand what that dragon is. Give it a name. We've said this before. The only way you can solve your problem permanently is that you got to give it a name. You have to understand what it is that has you in this headspace. And everybody's dragon is different. Everybody's situation is different. Only you know why you feel like the way you feel. Only you know why you're in this dark place. Only you know why you sit in a car for 45 minutes when everybody in your family is waiting for you in the house, in the apartment. Only you know why you're sitting on the train on your way to work and you're not even playing music. Your mind is just lost. People can't solve that for you. You have to solve it for yourself. So I do understand we're speaking to a very delicate man right now, someone that's not in the best headspace. But you have to take that little bit of accountability and understand, damn, what is my dragon and how do I slay it permanently? And these problems, like I said before, they're beach balls. You can try to push them down and ignore them with food, with cheap dopamine, with gambling, with porn. You can try, you can try. I've tried it, trust me. I I gamble like nobody's business. I work out like nobody's business. I listen to music to numb the pain like nobody's business. But every time I find a moment of silence, right before I go to bed, that doubt monster creeps right back up. That beach ball pops right back up because you have to address the bigger problem and you have to slay the dragon. And whatever that dragon is, is unique to you. We can't figure that out for you.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Man, I 100% agree with you, Just. And, you know, I think when you think about slaying those dragons and those demons, I think most of those thoughts come from your past, right? So you're thinking about things that have happened to you that are putting you in this like negative headspace and then ultimately contribute to like the depression, the loneliness, the anxiety, like all these negative emotions that you're feeling. And bro, I am a strong proponent of finding ways for you to relieve yourself of your past. Your past is not your identity. That's a great point. Your past is the past. It already they call it the past for a reason. Your past has passed you. So marinating in those feelings that have already passed you is not serving you in a positive way. So that's a little bit of actionable advice that I've applied to myself, Just whenever I'm like dipping into like a negative headspace where I'm like, damn, why am I feeling these things? And nine times out of ten, just it's always because I'm holding on to something that has happened to me in the past that I had not let go yet. And you got to slay those dragons, man. Slay those demons.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yeah, listen, I do want to leave on a note that could make a young man that may feel like, yeah, easy for you guys to say you're a little older, you've already been through it. You've been through this phase of your life. I'm going through it currently. I you know what? I respect that. I respect that Uno reverse card you just threw on the table. Another scenario that I've seen a lot in our community notes, which was, yeah, but you know, when you're as financially unstable as I am, it's hard to be positive. I'm in a very dark place. You know what? I accept that Uno draw four. Respect. It is really difficult to think about anything other than how you're gonna pay your rent or how you're gonna pay your car note, or how you're gonna pay for groceries or feed your kids when your money's fucked up. Listen, that that's a legit reason to be in a bad place. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't there before. Rich, how many stories have you shared about you going through some of the toughest times in your life? Life be life, and we say it all the time. You have to push through this moment and have hope and a confidence that you have been through tough things before and you can get through this tough thing right now. You have to believe that because if you don't, what are your options? So I hear everything that's in our community in terms of the steel man arguments that are made for people that are in these messed up places, but I have news for you guys money is not the cure to a fucked up headspace. We have many stories that we had in our research package, Rich. I do want to mention Tyson Fury, who I didn't even know this. Tyson Fury is one of the most decorated, most accomplished, most entertaining boxers who have ever fought. And after he won the heavyweight championship of the world, this dude was loaded. I think he made 20 plus million in that fight, not to mention all the other money that came from sponsorship. But this dude was dealing with depression and anxiety the whole time, Rich. He found a lot of his personal validation and his purpose in his work to get to this moment where he could compete for the heavyweight championship. And if I'm not mistaken, he beat Klitschko. And this is one of the most legendary fights in boxing history. I did not know this until I did the research today. After he won the belt and was king of the mountaintop, the most dangerous and violent man in the world, a man's man, a tough guy. Literally. This dude got in his Ferrari two days later, and he said he drove every day 190 miles per hour, and he was secretly hoping that he would run into a wall and end his life. Think about that. Wow. This is like on record, he said that he was in such a bad place in his life that the idea of accomplishing and winning the heavyweight title was the worst thing that could have ever happened to him because he had money, he had fame, he had recognition, but he didn't deal with the thing that was rotting internally. He never addressed it. And he was driving every day in his Ferrari 190 miles per hour, hoping to hit a wall. Who the fuck says that? Now, if that doesn't hit you with the Uno reverse for anybody that said, Yeah, I'm going through money issues, of course I'm in a dark place. I get it, man. Hey, I don't have a lot of friends and family around me. I'm in a dark place. Hey, I get it. But you can see stories of people that have it all, Rich, and they're still not happy.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

That's a great point, Jess. And what I would say to this young man, too, man, just putting myself in the headspace of him is just treat that pain as fuel, bro. At the end of the day, I feel like that pain over time builds resiliency. And you just start to get stronger and stronger as you overcome difficult things in your life. But letting that pain be your identity and just drowning in that pain is not gonna solve for the things you need to solve for. I think about some of the best opportunities that I've ever received in life has always been when I was in a positive headspace stress. It was never when I was in a negative dark place. Wow. So the world has a way of rewarding you, right? Like you carry yourself different when you approach the world from a positive lens. So yeah, I just I wanted to share that piece of actionable advice because I'm really trying to put myself as this like 20-year-old young man. And I'm like, bro, I get it, bro. I used to be broke. I used to, I went a year. One time I went a year without talking to my mom, bro. That's how bad like my relationship got with family. And and I felt broken. I felt like I didn't have a backbone. No father, not talking to my mom for over a year. Like me and my brothers had a strained relationship. Like I really felt alone for a period of time in my life. And I just remember that marinating and that pain never served me. It wasn't until I reframed my mentality to just view life from a different perspective and mend some of those relationships that things start to feel a little bit better for me. So yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 57:55

You got to do the work, right? You got to do the self-work. And I know that it's tough. It's tough not to get into cliches and stuff that you can find just by asking Chat GBT or watching a generic self-help video. But you know, when you think about the title of this episode, The Quiet Crisis, young men who are drowning in plain sight. Think about that visual. It's just men drowning in plain sight. People can see them, but they look like everything's okay, but but it's not. And how do you address that? It's hard because a lot of people can't see what's going on internally. And it's hard to solve for pain that you can't see. There's only but one real answer to start. And the first start has to be from within. You have to be able to address that pain. What is it? What is bothering you? And take positive steps forward. And how do you take positive steps forward? You can't do anything without believing that you can conquer that mountain or you can slay that dragon. If you don't have the self-belief to take the first step or move in the right direction, at the very least, reach out to the number that we shared earlier and we'll share again here. And it'll be in the show descriptions. Or, like Rich and I said, don't mask your pain with humor. Don't mask your pain with cheap dopamine and overeating and overindulging and crashing out and being an adrenaline junkie. Don't run away from this thing that seems to be bothering you because it's not going to go away. It actually never really goes away. That beach ball always pops back up at the worst times. So the best way to deal with it is to address it head on. And like we said earlier, write it down. Write it on your phone. Text a person that you trust and love and you know they're not going to exploit your vulnerabilities. Share it. Just share it with someone. And you'll see, man, once you kind of open up to the world, and just to kind of close up the metaphor of that man drowning in plain sight, maybe if you yell loud enough, somebody will hear you. It's not their job to save you, but they might throw a fucking buoy out there or something that you can hold on to until you get your feet back under you and your arms strong again and you can breathe again and you get your head above water. But getting through this moment right here is the most important and most crucial thing because the option that one in every five men are taking to deal with this problem is not a good one. There's actually no return from a lot of the option a lot of these young guys are taking. And we don't want that for our community, man. And you know, Rich and I try to stay away from this subject because we don't feel qualified to talk about it, but we're learning from what we see online. No one's really speaking on this subject.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:41

Yeah, man. Listen, and it sounds generic, just, but I would encourage every young man in this headspace to seek help, bro. Talk to someone. There's people out there who love you that would love to just check in and hang out and distract you from this negativity that you might be feeling, bro. But great point, Rich.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Like they might not even have anything to say about your problem, but they'll show you love and keep you away from those thoughts. That's a great fucking point. I actually, my older brother, Machito, is that in my life. He's not a sit down and unpack it and you know, but he will know enough to know to keep me busy and keep me in a good headspace. And sometimes, yeah, I'm sorry to cut you off, Rich, but that you do need that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:24

Yeah. So, like you said, Jess, if if we're summarizing the best two pieces of actionable advice that we have is number one, check in on yourself and do a self-audit and make sure that you're processing the things that you may be feeling, the pain that you may be going through. Yeah. Write it down.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

Write it down. Think about it. Don't ruminate, don't live in it forever, but you have to give it a name. You have to know where the origin of pain comes from. And once you do that, do not indulge in prescriptions and treatments and looking for five steps, three steps, two steps, best thing, drugs. That shit is to band-aid on a gaping, gaping cut that you have in your body. You have to find a more permanent solution.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

Yeah. And listen, and two, people love you, man. Just check in with someone that loves you, that you know will show love back. And shit, if you absolutely don't have anyone in your life, reach out to your neighborhood unks, Rich and Just. We're here to help. Failures Podcast. Like we always say, man, we're not selling you anything. We don't have ebooks. We don't have any courses. We're just here to help young men go through life struggles that me and Justin have gone through in the past. That's why we call it failures. Learn from our failures so you don't have to. Peace.