SPEAKER_00 0:02

How does this person react and act under pressure when things are not going their way in the first six months to a year of you living with them? Pay attention to that first six months to a year. And if it's straight red flags across the board, hit the exit, my boy. You don't want to be in pain for the next 30 years of your life. Because in the year 30, it's a lot more difficult to get out of a situation than it is in month six. I guarantee that. Failures Podcast. Today we're talking about dating, building a solid foundation for a long-term relationship versus getting into a relationship. You know, getting into a relationship is the easy part. You know, when you're on the dating apps, auditioning, doing your job interviews, seeking the best person to get into a relationship with. But today we're talking about the transition from dating into actually being in a long-term relationship. We have a question for you. Do you know what kind of man you are after the honeymoon phase is over? No more performance. Now it's permanent. You told all your side girls, go home. I'm out the game. I have a winner. I found a girl I love and I'm gonna build long-term with her. Potentially, we're gonna have kids. Potentially, we're gonna be a family. Potentially, I'm gonna get married. This is the girl. I'm not only going on dates with her, I am in a long-term relationship. It sounds good on paper, but Rich and I are here to tell you I'm 40 years old, Rich is 38 years old, we've had our fair share of long-term relationships. This is where the real relationship begins. And it gets brutal, it gets difficult. You have to have honest conversations with your partner. If no one's taught you how to build a happy, healthy, and stable relationship, stay right here. This episode is for you. Rich, I know you relate to this topic. But when I go through the headspace this young man is in right now, going from a short-term relationship to a long-term relationship, what comes to mind and can you relate?

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yeah, I can absolutely relate. And you know, this is such an important topic that we're here to discuss because I feel like it's not discussed enough. There's a lot of content for young guys about how to chase the girl, how to court her, how to flirt, how to riz her up, and all these things about conquering the woman, but no one really talks about that odd transitional period post-six months, post-honeymoon stage of what it actually takes to be in a committed relationship. And the interesting nuance here is that the tactics that you use to make her your girlfriend are not the same tactics you can use to keep her your girlfriend.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

And that's what we're here to unpack today. Rich, there's so many analogies that rush into my brain when I think about just dating versus being in year one of a long-term relationship. These are two very different sports. The best way I could think about what the difference is, it's like when you're young and you're in high school or college and you're literally jumping from odd job to odd job. Should I worked at a modeling agency? I worked at Pizza Hut, I sweeped leaves at the park. I had all these bullshit ass jobs that I knew for a fact I was not going to be doing for the rest of my life. But when I think about a long-term relationship, I think about my 18 to 20 year career in the music business. I think about something that I was taking very serious on day one because I planned on doing this for a very long time, if not forever. So I was going into my job thinking, okay, I have to take this serious. Everything I do should be done with intentionality. Everything I invest into this job is going to pay dividends. It's going to compound year after year, decade after decade. That's what a long-term relationship is. It's not job hopping, it's being a co-owner of a Fortune 500 company that you will die with on your resume. Now, I know that sounds extreme, but that's why the difficulty is happening with young men because they're taking a short-term strategy, a job hopping strategy, and they're applying it to co-owning a business. Two very different games, two very different strategies, two very different mental approaches that you go into these things with. And I'm excited about unpacking this today, Rich, because we have a lot of experience in this department. We've failed a lot in a lot of our relationships. And that's how we got here. I think we got some good advice today.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah. And think about that first six months, what that actually is. It's very performative at the end of the day. It's your job interview self. You're showing up a clean cut with the best clothes you have, uh, taking her on the best type of dates. And this is the stage where you're trying to present yourself the best possible way that you know how. And it tends to be performative because it's not entirely true to who you are, right? And the pitfall that a lot of guys fall into is that when they make her their girlfriend, now you have to peel back some of that performative uh actions that you've been doing in the honeymoon stage. For example, you might have to tell her the truth that you don't have as much money as you were portraying to have. You might have to tell her that the car is actually rented. You might have to tell her that you still live at home with your parents. And that is the truth that you have to divulge once you get into that committed relationship. So you can't bring your performative self from the honeymoon stage into the committed relationship arena because you will get exposed.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Think about the other side of that equation, Rich. When you're dating, it's like you're renting a car. Does the car have a decent gas mileage? Do the four wheels work? Can I get from point A to point B? I'm going to return this car. I don't give a fuck what the car looks like for the most part, as long as I get what I want out of the deal. That is a short-term dating relationship. Now, the car that you own, a little bit different. If I told you you couldn't trade this car in, this is the car you have for the rest of your life. Think about the approach that you're gonna have when you're going through the checklist of criteria of that car. I don't want to oversimplify dating and women by doing a car analogy, but when you really think about it, a long-term relationship is somebody that is maternal, someone that is open-minded, someone that is a good decision maker, someone that's good with their money. Shit, I think we have a whole episode dedicated to the type of woman you want to build a long-term relationship with. This is a whole different ballgame, Rich. So I want to add to your point, not only is the guy going to get exposed in a long-term relationship, the girl is also going to get exposed in a long-term relationship. Because if she doesn't check off all those other boxes, you are trying to domesticate a wild panther. A wild panther may be cool. You see it in the zoo, you look at it, you get close enough to see how nice of an animal it is. You get back in your car, you go home. The animal is not yours. Trying to fucking take a wild animal and make them someone that can be normal in a regular house is not the type of person you want to bring home. I've been there before, Rich. I've tried to tame some of the most outside women in the world. It's not a good business proposition. It leads to a lot of heartache. Sure, this girl's gonna photograph well on all your Instagram posts. Sure, your cousins and your uncles are gonna think you're the man because you bagged a nine. But we have news for you. Not the easiest relationship to be in if this person doesn't have the checklist that we mentioned earlier. And you want to be mindful of these things because if you can't build long term with someone, this is gonna be a lifetime problem.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah, I agree with you, Jess. And you know what? You have to be in the headspace to make that transitional period too, right? Because during this time, I think what happens with young guys is they get into the headspace of the gamification of dating, right? Like you're trying to be desirable, you're trying to chase her, and she's the prize. But once you make her your girlfriend, you feel like you won the trophy. You won the prize. And you know what happens, just you stop chasing. And that's when you cause friction early in the relationship post-honeymoon stage, because you're no longer trying to court her, you're no longer flirting, you're not chasing her. In your mind, you think that you got the end result, you got the trophy, and you no longer need to show up and put in the work that it takes to be in a committed relationship. And that's part of the distinction that we're gonna unpack today.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Rich, you brought up something that I think you'd have good advice for. For our younger listener that is getting into his first long-term relationship, he could be living with this girl, he could be considering living with this girl. Can you explain the difference between the honeymoon phase and what the first six months or 12 months looks like when you move in with somebody and how those two people may not be the same person? And I want you to clarify, and that's okay, because most people are not the same people they are when they're dating versus when they're living with someone.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Man, I could give you the most comedic analogy that I could think of. I literally told my girl this the other day. I said, when we were dating, my stomach would hurt all the time. She's like, why? I'm like, because I was holding my gas in all the time because it's something I didn't feel comfortable doing around you, right? That is what the honeymoon stage is. It's like the fake version of yourself that you want her to perceive that you're this pristine person who makes no mistakes and is infallible and doesn't pass gas, right? Like you don't do that. And it's funny because during that time you're showing up a different way than who you actually are. And not to say that that's wrong, right? Because I think we all do it. I think the cautionary tale and the difficulties for some of these young guys is understanding that when you transition to someone who's in a committed relationship, there's things about yourself and about the way you show up to the relationship that need to be different, right? It's not going to be the same anymore. It's going to be a lot more monotonous, a lot more boring. There's going to be arguments. You're going to have to have hard decisions to make. There's going to be bills to pay. There's going to be laundry that got to get done. There's going to be cleaning. There's going to be nuances about habits that she has, habits that you have that don't necessarily mesh well together. And this unknown arena of like living with another person that you've never lived with before now becomes something that you have to solve for. And there's a lot of challenges that arise when you have to solve for those challenges with a significant other.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

For sure, Rich. And I mean, you got it right when you mentioned the performance mask earlier. And I think that's the transition. It's a good way to transition into a real relationship. The performance mask is absolutely necessary. It's like makeup that a girl wears, at some point she's going to have to take it off, and you eventually get to see what she really looks like. But it's all done in good faith. You want to make sure that the person you're meeting gets to see a version of you at your best. Same thing as a job interview. You're putting your best foot forward. It's not like a trick, it's not a negative thing. But I want you to speak on the more serious side of the relationship. When you think the relationship is over because you had one argument, or you feel like you're going to permanently hate this person because you had a disagreement over what you're going to do over the weekend. She wanted to go to her mom's, you wanted to watch the game. Rich, talk a little bit about that friction when you go from the performance mask to your first two arguments and you feel like, oh, this is the worst relationship ever. The way I see it is, you know, it's not that the relationship is in a bad spot. It's just maturing. These are the golpes. You're learning this person day over day. This is the new version of this person, the more mature version of this person. And as people evolve, relationships evolve. So I want to know from your perspective, Rich, how you go from the performance mask to the discomfort of like the first few arguments you guys have.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yeah, listen, I agree with you. I think those are part of the growing pains of being in a committed relationship. And once you're post-honeymoon stage, once you're past the six months, now her mask comes off, your mask comes off, and you have two raw individuals sort of meeting each other for the first time as their true honest self, right? You're no longer in that chase of pursuing one another. You've opted into one another, you've chose to be in a committed relationship with one another. And now you're going to see what she's really like when she wakes up in the morning with no makeup on. You know, how she is after long days of work or in stressful situations where she's bringing sort of that stress back home and you need to comfort her, right? Or how she is when she's on her period every month, right? Like there's a lot of different things that a guy needs to adjust to, potentially modify for the relationship. And I think that's partly what men are not necessarily prepared to do in the beginning. Like you said, you deal with this friction early on, and you think, oh man, she's not who I thought she was, or I don't know if I picked the right person, or I thought I had the perfect woman, but I guess I don't, right? Like you start to doubt the relationship because there's friction early on, but that's actually a sign of a healthy relationship. That's a sign of a relationship of two people who are coming together to find common ground to build something solid for the future.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Yeah, Rich, when I think about the transition from a short-term relationship, just dating a girl, and the transition into a long-term relationship, building for the future with a woman. Notice I use the word girl and woman because in the phase from boy to man, you have to make a commitment. This is what I want to do long term. And I think there's three stages to this process. The three simple stages are getting, keeping, and excelling. Getting is the phase of courting, it's the phase of peacocking, it's the phase of going out there and putting your best foot forward on date number one, date number two. Keeping is maintaining the person's interest from dating too long term. That's the middle phase. That's the difficult phase because slowly you're meeting with this person more, you're getting to know their friends, and they're starting to vet you out of all the candidates and potential people they could be with. And then there's excelling. That's the last stage. Excelling is now we're in the relationship. How do we excel from phase one to phase two, phase two to phase three? These phases come with more commitment. And with more commitment comes more vulnerability, more possibilities of being heartbroken, of being in a situation where you start to resent this person. As the phases go on and the relationship excels, you have to put everything aside and try to figure it out because you're committed to the greater mission. This is not no rinky dink ass girl that you brought to the crib and you plan on never seeing again. This is your long-term partner. So if we're talking about a long-term relationship and what's the mechanics behind it, what's the simple rules to thrive in a long-term relationship? I would frame it that way, with those three simple steps. And if you can follow that model, you're gonna be fine because you know with every phase comes different adversity, comes different challenges. And it really forces you to level up. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's part of the growth, that's part of the maturity. Every tree that has fruit that's worth eating was a tree that was planted a long time ago. And the more patient you are with that garden, the more patient you are with how you groom that tree, that plant, the sweeter the fruit. I promise you that. I've been in a lot of relationships in my life. The best relationship I'm in is the relationship I'm in currently. And I took my time, but I naturally gave myself more challenges in the relationship, and I grew with the relationship.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Yeah, I agree with you. I think every relationship goes through phases. And when you're past the honeymoon stage, that's probably when you have to put in the most work. And I would say that this is a time for transparency. Tell her exactly who you are. Tell her a little bit about your insecurities. Tell her about the things that you're not good at. Like it could be something as simple as like, hey, I struggle with communication sometimes, but I'm working on it. Hey, I get defensive when I get criticized, but I'm working on it, right? Like, be a little bit more transparent about the things that may potentially trigger you or upset you so that she could start to learn a little bit more about who you are day to day. Because once you derive at that understanding of how each other operates, I think that makes for a better relationship and a better phase, comfortable phase to be in. I think the friction comes when you're post six months and you still want to operate like you're in that honeymoon stage, and then you're surprised by something she did that you weren't prepared for, or she's surprised at you for getting angry that she's never seen you get angry for, right? That's part of the friction that happens when there's no transparency early on in the relationship.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Rich, you had mentioned something earlier, and I want you to kind of zoom into a little bit more here. What's your advice to the guy that is experiencing his first big argument with his girl? He's lived with her for six months. And let's say he's one of your young cousins or your younger brothers, and he's telling you, bro, she wasn't like this before. I don't know what's going on. I think I got to get out of this relationship. What's your advice to that guy?

SPEAKER_01 18:01

I think when a woman is upset is probably one of the greatest signs of a healthy relationship. Because if she's upset, that means she cares. Right? A woman that doesn't care is not going to get upset. She's just gonna get on the phone, text, call the next dude to comfort her, and then you have a bigger problem on your hands. So the fact that she's getting upset means she cares. That's step one. Step two, I would really try to have him zoom in on why she got upset. Did you say something? Did you do something? Did you trigger her? Uh, what was the argument about, right? It's funny how women view a situation and how men view the same situation. Women are emotional creatures, they think with their heart, they think with their feelings, they're very passionate human beings. Men, we're fucking primal. We think with our monkey brain, we are very binary, we're very yes or no, black and white. Like, we don't really operate with feelings. So you do have to find a way to be sort of emotionally available for a woman and understand, or at a very bare minimum, validate her feelings, even if you don't agree with what the argument was about. So there's a lot of like backstepping that a man needs to do when a woman is upset to understand, well, why is she upset in the first place? And that I think is the ground zero for getting out of a conflict.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Rich, what you just said reminded me of something that I noticed with an older couple that works together at the lot that I work on. It's this two older couple. They literally have lunch every day. They got to be in their 50s or 60s. And one day I seen the older man out and about, just kind of doing his job on the lot that I work on. And I had asked him, like, yo, is that your wife that you meet with every day to have lunch with? And he was like, Yeah, we've been together for a very long time. And, you know, we just so happen to work in production at one of the studios that I work in. And he was like, We try to make one time a day to come out and have lunch together, or at least sit down and talk to each other. And I was like, Oh, so it's like, give me advice. You know, I just moved in with my girl. I want to have a very long-term, happy, and stable relationship. Is eating lunch together the secret to a stable relationship? And it's an older black dude, he laughed at me. He was like, bro, eating lunch together is not the secret to a stable relationship. The secret to an emotionally stable relationship is two emotionally stable people. The secret to a caring, loving, and considerate relationship is two caring, loving, and considerate people. The secret to a happy relationship is what? Two happy people. This dude was telling me, don't be fooled by what you see from the outer world based on people that look happy. The work is done by the individual. So he was telling me, I'm a pretty happy guy. I try to keep myself fit, I try to keep myself happy, I try to keep my mind calm, and I go into the relationship being a full person. And then I hope my wife is able to do the same. And it allows us to sit down as two happy people to have lunch every day, and we go home together and we assume that we're doing the self-work. That to me broke my brain because I was thinking he was gonna give me some tip, trick, and hack on how to get into a happy relationship. And he was saying pretty much, no, bro, you got to do the work. You got to be happy with yourself. That's the only way you could be happy in a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah, just that's such a great point. I feel like that's how I would tell a young man to reframe a relationship. It's that it's a partnership. And what I've found personally in in my own life and relationship is that sometimes I do a lot of the inner work and I might show up in a positive mood. Sometimes my girl. Might not be so positive that day, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm with the wrong person. That just means she's having a bad day. But guess what? We are a partnership. My job and my role when she's feeling off is to try to help uplift her so that she can bring her best self and contributions to the partnership. And we are at our best, like you said, when we're emotionally available and willing for each other. That's when we're in sync and in unison and the partnership feels the most healthy. But the thing to understand here is like it's not always going to be one-to-one. There's days that she's going to be off, you're going to be on. There's days that you're going to be off, she's going to be on. But those days when you're both on together and you're in sync and you're in harmony, those are the days you live for in the relationship at the end of the day. But I strongly believe that viewing a relationship as a partnership instead of something that is either you or me is one of the healthy secrets of a relationship.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Yeah. I mean, if you want a tip for a long-term relationship, the best tip I can give you is there's a big difference between getting a job and keeping the job. There's a big difference between getting into a relationship and building a sustainable and happy relationship. Those are two different skill sets. Getting a job and keeping the job are two very different things. And like you said, Rich, a relationship is two people opting in. It's a beautiful contradiction. Long-term relationships are a beautiful contradiction. You want to know why? No one is obligated to be in that relationship. You both chose each other. There's a million men on the planet, and she chose you. There's a million women on the planet and you chose her. You both have happily opted into this relationship. So now the only pressure is to show up every day, the same way you showed up when you got the job, when you decided to make this person your long-term partner. So I kind of love that burden that comes with it because it's a burden of performance for both parties. Now, if one of us decides to stop loving ourselves, one of us decides to gain weight, become depressed, sit on the couch all day, have fucking Cheeto dust all over our face. If we decide that is who we want to be in this relationship, you better hope that that person loves you so much that they're willing to take you as a fake version of yourself that you were when you first started talking to her. Because that's all you're doing is you're hitting her with the banana peel. You showed up as one person and now you switched up the whole formula and now you're a whole other person. Just know that every person that's in a relationship has the option to be in that relationship. And I love that, Rich. I love that because the burden of performance is on everybody. You have to show up, you have to adapt, you have to put your best foot forward, you have to contribute your 51% every day, and she has to contribute her 51% every day. And to me, that burden is something that's necessary. Because if both people quit, you will have the worst sex ever. You will have the worst partner ever. You will have the worst conversations ever. Sitting in a car and going on a road trip with that person will feel like nails on a chalkboard because you despise this person. You're just in the relationship. I don't think that is the best formula for a happy relationship. So again, getting into a relationship, very different than building one. These are very different skill sets. Master both of them, but make sure you master the second one while you're in the relationship. It's going to make the relationship a much better experience.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Yeah. And as you're mastering that, I think it's super important to really have those hard conversations about what the future looks like. What are our intentions? What are we looking to build? I think when you have a solid foundation of what you are looking to build with your significant other, whether that be children, owning a home, right? Like buying a business, whatever those goals may be, now you know that this is what the partnership is working towards, right? Like now you know that quitting is not an option. We have goals as a partnership in this relationship, right? It's not ambiguous, like day-to-day we're boyfriend and girlfriend, and we're just existing, right? Like, no, I plan to be engaged. I want to be married, I want a house, I want children, I want us to grow old together, right? Like these are hard questions and answers that need to be asked in a relationship. And I feel like that gives you the fuel that you need to work towards something. If you don't identify what those goals are, then you're pretty much just existing and having fun for the time being.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, Rich, there's a phrase that I had just to look it up real quick that reminded me of what we're talking about here. Ed Catmull, he's one of the three co-founders of Pixar. It's a philosophy that I stole from him for my job. I'm in a leadership role in marketing. And he talks about the difference between a handle and a suitcase. And he explains this theory to his team because he says words are just words. Words are like handles. The intention behind the words, the action behind the words, what you do with words is the suitcase. It's what's inside. So a lot of people like to use words, but they don't take any of the action. And I think the word love falls right into this category, Rich. When someone says they want to be loved, they just use the word in the hallmark, February 14th, cute romantic comedy kind of way, like I just want my girl to love me, or a girl saying, I just want my man to show me love. But that's just a handle. What's in the suitcase? What does love mean to you? And I'm not saying that on some hokey shit. We're not that platform. We're not like a platform that is gonna say words without unpacking it. If you're talking about a 30-year marriage, love is a term that has way more suitcase in it than it does handle. Love is gonna show up in different ways every day. Rich, you have kids with the woman you live with. Love hits different when you talk about your children together than it probably does when you talk about when you were first dating. So I just want to zoom into the word love and what does that mean? Because, in my opinion, love is showing up for your partner through thick and thin. Obviously, you don't want to be an idiot. If your partner is a piece of shit and they treat you like shit, get out of that relationship. That's not love. I'm saying two people opting in, caring for each other, thinking about each other, being considerate of each other. That is three of a thousand words in the suitcase that has the handle of love. I'm curious to know for you, Rich, you're in a bit of a more mature and a relationship with a lot more people in it. What does that word mean to you? And when I say the unpacking between the word and the actions, what comes to mind?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

What comes to mind for me, and I'm sort of embarrassed to say this, but I really didn't know what love languages were until I was in my early 30s. And I didn't understand that there's people that receive love in different ways. I just always thought, like, if you tell a girl I love you and you hug her and you're emotionally available and you have physical attraction for her, like that's love, right? And it's so much more than that, right? Like, I had to do the whole like love language test to understand how I like to receive love and how my partner likes to receive love because those are two different things, and it's different for everyone. And I think ironically enough, my girl is the type of woman that likes words of affirmation. I could care less about words of affirmation. My whole thing with love is show me by actions. That's how I like to receive love. Because if I see you doing something for me, I feel like you care about me, right? Or my girl just wants to hear it. You know what I mean? But I I could care less about hearing that I'm loved, right? So there's a disconnect between how I give love and how she wants to receive it. And that's fine. That disconnect can exist as long as you guys identify what each of your love languages are and then pander to them in order to strengthen the love you have for each other.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Yeah. I mean, think about a relationship. If you're a young man, you probably have this type of relationship with your mother because you've lived with her your whole life. If you got brothers and sisters, you've probably been in the trenches with somebody you love, and you had to fight for your privacy in your room. You had to fight for things you wanted in the family. That is the convoluted relationship that comes with a relationship. The same person that makes you happy, makes you smile, is the same person that could ruin your entire week, can make you feel depressed, can make you feel angry, can make you feel vengeful. How do I know? Because I've been there before. The same person that can get you high on the roller coaster can also drop you to the bottom of that roller coaster. This is what comes with the emotional swings of being in a relationship. So Rich and I are not trying to take all the beauty out of the honeymoon phase of relationship. We're just giving you the caution sign before you go in. It's not gonna all be highs. It's not all gonna be beautiful butterflies and beautiful moments, and y'all are not gonna be holding hands, skipping through the fucking grass. That's not how any relationship works. Shit, that's not how the business relationship between me and Rich work. And we've been working together for 25 plus years on many projects. We have disagreements. We have moments where we're upset one another. But what pushes through is the common knowledge that the person on the other side is putting their best foot forward and either we had a disagreement or a miscommunication. But the goal that outlasts everything is the goal of the greater project, and that's to make it work. If your partner is not looking to make it work and they only want to win every argument just because they like to win the argument, it's gonna be a fucked up relationship long term. Rich, I have something here from John Gotham's Love Lab. It's an experiment that they've been doing for 50 plus years on marriage research. I'm going to repeat that again. 50 years of marriage research. This research just came to light. They have concrete data that says they can predict divorce rates with 90% accuracy based on 50 years of marriage research. Do you want to know what the number one indicator of 50 years of marriage research is that they can predict a divorce based on 90% accuracy? Do you want to know what it is? It's how people communicate after a moment of conflict, after an argument. How much time do they need to see the couple communicating? These researchers only need 15 minutes of seeing how two partners communicate after an argument and they can predict divorce with 90% accuracy. What does that tell you?

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Bro, you know what I want to zoom in on? I feel like our community is very guilty of this. During that conflict, right? During that period of time when you're not getting along and there's a lot of tension and there's a lot of friction and you guys are having arguments. I think one of the things that either the guys tend to do or the women tend to do, or both, is you tend to phone a friend, call mom, call dad, your brother, your sister, your aunt, your uncle, grandma, cousin. And once you start to raise your concerns to people outside of the relationship, you invite them to have an opinion. You invite them to have recommendations and suggestions and a voice into something that they have no business on including themselves in, right? Because they're not in the trenches, they're not in the day-to-day of the relationship to understand why the argument even came up in the first place. But when you extend the olive branch of like, hey, I need advice on something, so-and-so is not doing what I asked, et cetera, et cetera. Now you're inviting a third party into something that should just be between you and said individual. And I think that causes even more friction in the relationship. And then you know what happens? You go to Christmas, and everybody's grilling the shit out of you because they remember the argument that happened three months ago. So I just want to let our young men know like, don't call mom when you're arguing with your girl, don't call anyone. Same thing for the woman. Don't call mom, don't call your sister, don't call your grandma. The only person you should be speaking to about problems with your significant other is with your significant other. I just want to put that disclaimer out there because I feel like it's very important. Now, Rich, that's a deep cut.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Yeah, that's a deep cut. You want to know why? Because nine times out of 10, if you're venting to someone about your partner, it's probably not a positive thing. If your girlfriend talks to her mother about all the negative shit you do, one of the most important people in her life, and by proxy, now one of the most important people in your life, Rich, is going to be a mother that only hears 90% negative stuff about you. It's almost like politics. If you want to hate one side of the political party, just watch the news network that does hate news on that side of the party. You'll have enough information to feel negative about that person. But you know what? A girl in a relationship never tells their mother? I love how my man chokes me in the bedroom, pulls my hair, makes me happy, makes me scream, makes me come multiple times. She will never tell her mother that. She will never tell her how you make her little sandwiches in the middle of the night, her favorite P B and J sandwich with a little bit of cooking skills her man has, but it makes her so happy. She'll never tell her the funny ass jokes that you tell her about your coworkers. She'll never tell her about the funny ass conversations y'all having between watching reality shows. She'll never tell her about the funny nickname that you gave her and how it makes her smile every time you text her when she's at work. Your girl will never tell her mother any of those things. But she'll tell her that you're the worst person in the world one time a month. What that does is it creates a cancer in the community of women that decide whether you are or are not the right man in her life. So I love that point you made, Rich. That was not on the pre-show notes, but you did trigger an emotion for me. Because I usually tell my significant other, if you're gonna shit on me, make sure you tell them all the good things. Make sure you tell them how I make them toes curl in the middle of the night. You gotta tell them everything. Because if you don't, then I'm gonna be the worst person on the planet. And we both know that's not true.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Yeah, exactly. And you know, when you're working towards those common goals, right? Of having children, building relationships for the future, these people around you that love you are part of the tribe. And if the tribe thinks negative about either side, that is not good for the overall tribe, especially when you go on outings and birthdays and Christmas and do things together as a family. Like you guys need to understand that you are a unit. You are one, you are in a partnership. And like you said, Jess, be politicians. When you both step foot out of that apartment or that house, you guys should appear to the external world as the happiest couple in the world. Whatever unsolved conflicts you guys have, deal with that shit inside the house. Don't let the world see the vulnerabilities that exist in the relationship because that's something you guys are still working through. And don't invite any external parties to those situations because they shouldn't have a voice on something that you guys are still working through, right? So I 100% agree with you, Jess. It's it's a game of politics, right? Like you have to present to the people that you care about the most that the relationship is healthy. Yeah, we might be tying a few screws loose in this relationship, but we're working on it, right? It's not so bad.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Rich, you seem very triggered by this particular portion of the long-term relationship conversation. I get what you're saying, but I want you to unpack a little bit more for the young man listening to this. Like, oh, why can't we just be ourselves? If we're arguing and we're not like excited about being together and we're over at my mom's house, why do we have to fake it? And I think what you're saying is just be mindful of that little crack in the windshield. Because that little crack in the windshield could get bigger and bigger over time if you let everyone see the most negative parts of your relationship.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Yeah, I'm a strong proponent in how you present yourself in the world, how the world receives you. And if a woman is going to work sad all the time, you know what happens? Guys start to flock to her because they think they can fix that sadness, right? I was not expecting that. I truly believe this. She's a wounded animal in them streets. I truly believe this, right? And and vice versa, right? For the guy, now he's going a happy hour twice a week with his co-workers because he doesn't want to go back home. And they're like, oh, this dude definitely must have relationship issues because he's he never wants to be home. So I think naturally the world modifies itself around whatever you have going on if that's what you're projecting. So I am a strong proponent of faking the funk to the world. But when we get home, we need to have a serious conversation and we need to hash this out. Don't embarrass me in front of the world, to the world, and show them that there's conflict when this is something we still need to fix behind closed doors.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Yeah, Rich. And I think the simplest way I could put it for a young man that's going from dating into a long-term relationship is anything worth having long term is going to require effort. Not just effort on your part, effort on her part, effort on her family's part. Because this is not something that should break with one argument. Because if this was built to last, it's going to go through arguments, it's going to go through some negative times. Nothing that even the stock market, it's not one straight arrow up to the top. It dips, it rises. It dips, it rises. Now it shouldn't hit the ground. That means you're in a fucked up relationship. Get out of that one. Just humans are naturally not happy people. They're always looking for something better. And you're no different. She's no different. It's almost impossible for one person to be happy all the time. Now put two people in a room, try to keep both of them happy all the time. It's nearly impossible. So when you sign up for the roller coaster of a long-term relationship, a future family and love, just know that there will be bumps along the way. But if you guys both lock in, it's gonna be all right. I know that from experience. I can speak from experience. So just know this thing is worth something to you. Be clear that there will be some tough times. But if it's worth it, it's worth a giving effort. And Rich, there's another part of the segment that I wanted to get into, which was conflict. Conflict in a relationship does not necessarily mean that the relationship is falling apart. I think that is something that young men usually get thrown off by the first time there's a major moment in their relationship. Imagine a younger brother coming to you and being like, yo, I think I'm gonna have to break up my baby mom's because we got into one argument. What's your response to that?

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yeah, you're crazy. And you're not viewing conflict as a positive indicator, which I honestly think it's a positive indicator because, first of all, I think a relationship with no friction is a fallacy. Like you guys are just both being performative until one of you gets tired and then you're gonna go to the next relationship and be performative there, right? But what the friction and the conflict allow you to do is really understand the triggers of the other person, right? And once you understand these nuances about an individual, you know what happens just you grow a stronger bond for that person because it's like the tentacles, the spider web, right? Like you're connecting all the dots that bring you closer together as a couple and as a partnership in this relationship. So every conflict is sort of like an electromagnetic connection that you're making with that other person, right? And you're falling deeper into love. I know that every time me and my girl have an argument and we resolve that argument, I know 0.5% of me has grown much closer to her after that argument. But what happens after a thousand arguments? Then you grow 50, 60, 70% closer with that individual because you've been through the trenches together. You've solved for all of life's complex challenges and have grown together on the other side to resolve those things together as a unit. So I do strongly believe that conflict is a mechanism for bringing you closer together with your significant other.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Yeah, and I mean, the easiest way I could say this is every human is a fear based animal. And usually when there's conflict, it's usually just your animal instinct trying to push someone back or get someone to behave a different way because it's triggering something. Something in you. And that's all conflict is. The reason why maybe your girlfriend doesn't want you to go out at night with your friends is because she fears that you might find somebody better. And that's something that she got to deal with. And you guys got to figure out what's at the core of that conflict. Or there's times where she is passive aggressive towards you, and you have to deal with someone that is treating you mean and you have no idea what's going on. But communication is not your best form of dealing with problems. You're not a talker. You're someone that needs to be told clearly what's going on in a relationship. Conflict is just someone trying to figure out how do I get the most out of this situation? And how do I get my partner to do something that I want them to do so I'm not in fear? This is what comes with conflict is resolution. And with that resolution, hopefully one of y'all could remember oh, this thing triggered my partner. I have to be more mindful of that moving forward because what was a big deal to her is not a big deal to me. And vice versa, what's a big deal to me is not a big deal to her. You can't fight over everything every time, trying to win every time because that's not how you play long-term games. You want to be able to give to get, get to give. And that back and forth is what creates a harmony in a relationship. But conflict is natural, it's just one person trying to get more familiar about being with this person. And if you think conflict is the end, you're a fucking idiot because there will never be a relationship that is 100% butterflies and skipping in a fucking grass. It just doesn't work that way. That's not how relationships work. All of them, every single one of them. If there's a good relationship, there's gonna be friction. But with that friction comes smooth edges. It's just it eventually rounds itself out. And there's no guaranteed and forever peace and harmony in a relationship. People evolve every day. People shed skin every day. People grow new hair every day, new skin every day. People are constantly changing. If you can't accept that and you think people are gonna be the same they were two years ago, you're a fucking fool. You don't know how humans work. So with the adjustments of your partner, they're growing, you grow with them, and vice versa. I don't know everything. I just know that this idea that everything is gonna stay status quo forever is a fool's mission. And don't be a fool. People change, things change. Learn to adjust with them.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Just I plan to listen to this episode at least once a week after we publish it because I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't say that I still deal with this today, right? To your point, this is not something that goes away. Like two people, a couple, need to both want to work together in order for a relationship to work and to be successful. And as we're speaking to the young guy here, right? As the young man, you need to understand that there's a lot of challenges, a lot of conflict, a lot of tension that is going to happen in the relationship. And the solution is not just to be like, oh, I'm gonna hit the exit door, let me pull this latch and escape this relationship. Great point, bro. The easiest thing to do as a young man in a relationship is cheat. That is the easiest thing to do. The hardest thing to do is stay in the relationship and do the hard work if you so choose to want to do that. And one of the analogies that I used with you personally, Just is just like us as men, we are the surfers on the surfboard. And the women in conflict and situations are like the waves, right? Like we're going with the flow, we're going with the waves, and we're, you know, some waves are gonna thrash us, other ways we're gonna ride well, right? Like, I don't think men have the solution for every single conflict that arises with a woman or a significant other. But the best thing that you could do for yourself is just show up to the relationship, want to work through that conflict. And I promise you, if you care enough about that individual, those conflicts are going to bring you closer together once you overcome them.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Yeah, Rich, I think you're right. I think you have to get through adversity, and nine times out of ten, the man is gonna have to be the person that has to figure out how to adjust themselves to get through the storm. Relationships come with storms. So I think that was a great analogy that you said. You always go to that analogy, and I think it's right. One other thing that came up a lot, Rich, and this is more of a pivot on the points that we were making, steel man argument, which I kind of agree with, is some men are with women they truly cannot build a long-term relationship with, but they keep trying. Incompatibility is real. You have to help men understand that and acknowledge that and know when it's time to quit. Rich, Justin, when do you know when it's time to quit a relationship?

SPEAKER_01 48:50

First of all, I agree with that. You can't turn a hoe into a housewife. So if that's what you did early on, you got bigger problems.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

Yep. You're building on terrible foundations. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

Yeah, I agree. However, if you're the type of person who went into a relationship with honest intentions, and that relationship has gone sour and has gotten toxic and has gotten physical, and the word domestic violence is involved, it is time to quickly and promptly exit that relationship because it's to a point where something could happen that can alter your future and reality in ways that you never thought could happen for yourself. So that that would be my initial advice and reaction to that type of situation.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Yeah, Rich, when I think about what our listeners are asking, when they ask, when do you know it's time to get out of a relationship, a long-term relationship? I think about a quote, I don't remember who said it, but it's an investment quote. And it's the worst enemy to a bad business is time, but the best friend to a great business is also time. And I think that business quote fits into relationships. The worst enemy to a poor partner in a relationship, a terrible match, is time. All you need to do is give it time. Sometimes time just exposes everything. You don't have to rush anybody, don't jump into any quick decisions, don't buy a house, don't have a kid, just give it time. If you're unsure on somebody, but you're excited about what's about to happen next, just give it time. Time will expose everything, time will show you everything. And if it's a great woman with a great foundation, with a great head on her shoulders, time is also gonna show you and validate that. Oh shit, this is a great person. I want to invest more. You don't got to go push all your chips in off top in the beginning. You can slowly give more and more as the person continues to reveal more and more of themselves. And the only way you're gonna get to know who this person is is through volatility, through crazy times and good times, bad times and good times. So, my advice to the young man that's wondering, I don't know when's a good time to hit eject on a relationship is hey man, if you have enough data, you have enough information, you've been through enough with this person. And for every 10 fucked up situations y'all have been in, nine of them you couldn't get through it because one of you weren't able to have the maturity or the level of growth in the relationship to get through it, then it's time to let that go. But time can show you a lot of things that you can't see on day one. That's a fact for business as it is for relationships.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

Just the right woman can either be your piece or punish you. She could either multiply you or subtract you. So, like you said, you need to gather as much data as possible to discern those two distinctions. If she's somebody motivating you, who pushes you, who wants you to do better for yourself, who genuinely wants to make you happy, who celebrates your wins and accomplishments, that's somebody who brings you peace. That's somebody who wants to multiply you. If you're with somebody who's arguing for everything, who's very toxic, who tries to put her hands on you, who disrespects you, who like takes all your money, like she's a net negative to your life, and she is a punishment. So I think the distinction is very clear. I think the poison and the problem that happens for these young guys is they fall in love with the nine who's toxic. They fall in love with the nine who has great sex, but is a piece of shit person, right? And you don't know how to discern a good woman versus a bad one for yourself. So there's, you know, there's a lot about relationships that a guy needs to modify, adjust, you know, rethink when it comes to being in a relationship and who you're in a relationship with. But I can't sit here and tell you who you should or shouldn't be with. That's something that you have to identify for yourself. But to your point, with enough data points, the distinction is clear. You just have to keep your eyes out for it.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

Yeah. I mean, Rich, if I were being honest and I was thinking about something that is constantly overlooked when it comes to building foundation for a long-term relationship, for a woman that you're potentially going to have kids with, marry, buy a house with, the one thing that constantly gets overlooked, it's how does this person react and act under pressure? How does this person react and act when things are not going their way? How does this person deal with adversity, deal with not great situations in the first six months to a year of you living with them? Because there's one thing that I know at the age of 40 years old that I know is true for a fact, is people are pretty consistent. People have difficulty changing from one person to a whole other person in a span of two years. Consistently, people show up the same way. So if she's someone that is not dealing with any of these issues in a positive way in year one, chances are in year 20, with three kids, a half a million dollar mortgage, and a full family you've built together, and all your love and emotions are invested in this person, chances are you're building on a weak foundation. If she told you everything you need to know in the first six months to a year. So my advice would be pay attention to that first six months to a year. And if it's straight red flags across the board, hit the exit, my boy. You don't want to be in pain for the next 30 years of your life. Because in the year 30, it's a lot more difficult to get out of a situation than it is in month six. I guarantee that. How do I know that? I live through that.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

Yeah, I agree with you. And I think the biggest thing that a man needs to understand is getting into a relationship proves that you can attract someone, right? But building a relationship proves that you're somebody that you're worth staying with. And that's the genesis of this entire episode. It's a different level of manhood, it's a different level of maturity for a young man once you step into a relationship and you have to do the hard work that it takes to build that relationship to the best possible place it could be.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Rich, before we go, I did want to mention one thing that felt like you had a great insight on, and I was curious to know what you would say to a young man that was going through this, and that was vulnerability. We did talk about it on the pre-show, and I want you to get into it a little bit. I do have um a response from a Reddit thread that was probably like 500 comments deep about long-term relationships and men being the problem in long-term relationships. And what came up and got a lot of votes was vulnerability. And this guy said vulnerability with the wrong person can be used against you. So, people, please be careful with who you're vulnerable with. I would say the skill isn't vulnerability with everyone, the skill should be vulnerability with the right person. But the problem is, what if you're not being vulnerable with the right person and they're using it against you?

SPEAKER_01 56:34

This is a tough one, right? Because I feel like when you're in a committed relationship, you should have the ability to be vulnerable with that person. And I think that vulnerability will compound into positive things for that relationship.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Rich, I'm sorry to cut you off, but go into this a little bit. Why vulnerability? Why do you think it'll compound? What's the result of being vulnerable that compounds later?

SPEAKER_01 56:57

I think it leads to a deeper connection, right? If she understands your past, your wounds, your triggers, things about you that no one else in the entire world knows about, right? That creates a deeper connection with you that she might not have with anyone else, right? And I think naturally women yearn for that level of deep intimacy and deep connection, and that only comes by proxy of being vulnerable. However, there are things and scenarios where a woman could take that vulnerability and potentially exploit that vulnerability. There could be situations where if she saw you cry, she might look at you different. She might have never seen another grown man cry before, but as her significant other, she saw you cry, and now she may see you less of a man. And I think in moments like that, just that's a very significant indicator that either there are more things in that relationship that you need to work on with that person, or potentially you're with the wrong person. Because if you don't have the deep level of comfortability to cry in front of your significant other when a tragedy happens without being mocked, then you're probably not in the right relationship.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

Yeah, Rich, one thing we discussed, and it's worth mentioning here, is the scale of vulnerability, the sliding scale from one to 10. I've known you my whole life. When you say vulnerable, you're talking about going from two to three on the scale. We have to be worried and be considerate that this generation of younger men, they live in the seven to 10 scale. And the seven to 10 scale is crying when they look at the sunset. Being open and honest every single time they speak to their girlfriend about their triggers or their vulnerabilities. I would caution our listener to not be in the seven to 10 section of vulnerability. And being vulnerable in the way I think Rich means it, which is, you know, you're being honest with her about what triggers you in the relationship. You're honest with her about her getting loud with you or yelling at you in public, and you telling her that's not acceptable. That's something that really makes you upset. Being vulnerable can mean a lot of different things. So I just want to be clear on what that means to you, Rich, because I don't want to give our listener the wrong impression.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Yeah, certainly. And I think there are moments that are acceptable for a man to be vulnerable with his woman. I think what you're saying is your whole identity is vulnerability and you're just wearing your emotions on your sleeve, and this is how you operate on a day-to-day. That I would caution against because, like I've always said before, if exploits exist, if vulnerabilities exist, they will be exploded.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

Neediness is a sign of constant validation. And if you're insanely vulnerable and you're always complaining, crying, sharing with a woman that needs you to be a rock, just be careful because neediness could be a trigger for somebody to want to get away from you. And I'm saying that from experience because you might not know that you're showing neediness to this person who has a whole other life that she wants to live outside of you. And she might have seen you as someone that was stable, that has your own little world, and she can dip and dive out of your world and come to you whenever y'all hang out. But if you're a needy, vulnerable guy and you're always showing how needy you are, you become someone that becomes the other half of a magnet. And when you're really needy, when a person wants something from the world that can help hold them up, needy people are the type of people that get avoided because if somebody doesn't have anything to give you, you become a burden in a long-term relationship because you're always complaining. You're always asking them what they're doing, why are they not with you? Be careful with being needy in a relationship, because needy leads to validation seeking, and validation seeking leads to people avoiding you. I know this is a nuanced point I'm making, but these are the triggers in a long-term relationship that a lot of young men could be suffering from, and they have no idea what's going wrong. And that is usually one of the reasons why relationships go left, because you're not the person you were when she met. You're not this confident guy that has his own universe that you live in, and you have your own friends, and you have your own things you do. Now you're constantly worried about what she's doing. Now you're constantly worried about why she's not listening to you when you send her 37 text messages in a row venting about how you were triggered by the things she said about a guy that you guys both know. Be mindful of neediness, be mindful of being overvulnerable. It can be the Jenga piece that knocks down the whole Jenga set when you're not paying attention. Just something I wanted to share with our listeners as a cautionary tale.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

Yeah, no, just I agree with you. And man, this was a lot to unpack. And I hope that we were pretty clear about the distinction between building a relationship versus getting into one. I think there's a lot of nuances, there's a lot of things about that transitional period that this young man needs to identify and modify accordingly. And you know, it's not all sunshines and roses, but hopefully we share something in this episode to really enlighten the young man and let them know that hey, there's a lot of hard work that needs to be done to maintain this relationship in a healthy state. And we hope you guys do that work for.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

And Rich, I'm glad you brought up sunshine and roses because all roses come with thorns, and if you stay in the sun long enough, you can get your ass burned. So everything that glitters ain't gold, man. Just be mindful when you get into a long-term relationship. It comes with a lot of work. Failures podcast. Have you fucked with anything we said on this episode and you thought it was helpful? Share it with somebody who you think needs it. We're out of here. There you have it. Peace.