SPEAKER_00 0:02

We're not telling you to move out impulsively. What we're telling you is to have a plan. This is about planned independence. It's not about recklessly taking a risk and not knowing what comes next because you don't have enough money in the bank or you move in with some random ass people in a random ass neighborhood. We're not saying that. We're not saying to be impulsive and irrational, but we're saying you have to take a step, not no step. Failures podcast. Today we're talking about an epidemic. We're talking about 35-year-old men still living in their childhood bedrooms. We'll call it the bedroom trap. Men living in a state of emergency. Today we're talking about one question every guy listening to Failures Podcasts is probably asking themselves, should I move out or should I not? There's only one of two guys we're talking to in this episode. The first guy is the guy saving up, had a misfortunate circumstance happen in his life, or maybe he graduated college, he was dorming for four years, and now he's back at his childhood bedroom and he's plotting and saving and he's gonna get out of there. Then we have the other guy, the sneaky guy. This guy is probably in his early 30s, mid-30s. He keeps telling his parents he's gonna move out, keeps telling his friends he's gonna move out. He has a leased car. It costs $800, $900 a month. He gets very fresh. He goes to the club every other night. He's a single man, he's dating, sneaking women into his mom's house. Realistically, he has zero plans of moving out, but he's always complaining about it. Why bring this episode up today? Because Rich and I obviously created a platform for young men. And we realized one thing. Men in their 30s still living at home has become a huge problem. And the question Rich and I were asking ourselves is why wouldn't these guys move out? They probably make enough money to get a roommate or not live with their parents. But then the better question we asked is the one I want to ask you, Rich, why move out? If everything is done for you, your laundry's done for you, your mom cooks for you, and you have all the money you make can go to your lifestyle, why move out of your mom's house? That question's a little bit better because it actually is the steel man argument for the guy listening to this episode. The juice is not worth the squeeze. The housing market is fucked up, and there's no reason to move out. Rich, why do you think this person is in this situation?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

The first thing you need to ask yourself is Am I becoming the man who can stand on his own? Right. That is the state of emergency. Like, are you becoming the guy who can be on his own, adjust to adulthood appropriately, right? Like there's a lot of comfort that comes from living at home. Like you don't have to pay certain bills, uh, you don't have to cook your own meals, you don't have to do your own laundry. And I think that initially that comfort feels good and it feels like you have a little bit more peace in your life because these are not things you have to worry about. But the other side of the spectrum is that you don't end up learning these things for yourself. You don't end up becoming a little bit more independent. And unfortunately, you delay your process into adulthood. You delay your process into manhood. And I think that's part of the state of emergency here for these young guys.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Yeah, Rich, and we're gonna start off this episode. I think we have a lot of what we think would be good actionable advice for any of the young men listening to this. If you're in your mid-20s, late 20s, early 30s, and you live with your parents, we obviously know we're speaking to a lot of people because the stats tell us that more than 25 million adults under the age of 35 still live with their parents. And this stat, according to PEW research and the Census Bureau, they originally thought that this number was so high because of the pandemic. I'm sure you remember that everybody had to go back home because they were working in major cities and the and obviously the pandemic caused a lot of unemployment. So that number jumped during the pandemic, but it jumped and then it kind of stood exactly at the same number. And now that the world has been open for what, four or five years, the amount of adult men living with their parents never came down. It's actually increasing. So we want to offer empathy and some like rationality behind the reason why. And I think that was what we wanted to dedicate the first half of the episode to, Rich. Why is it that a young man or a grown-ass man doesn't want to leave the convenience of their home and pay anywhere between $3,000 and $4,000 of rent in a one-bedroom apartment in a major city, or the average cost of a home today is anywhere between $500,000 to a million dollars near a major city. It would make sense, right? The game isn't the same game that our parents were playing. These guys are playing the game a little bit on hard mode, and we definitely have to offer them by grace.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yeah, and I agree with you. I think there's a little bit of empathy that we need to have with these young guys, right? Because everyone's situation is different. I know there's some young guys that might actually be in a situation where they're helping their parents and they're helping pay half of the mortgage or one-third of the mortgage, or they have sick family members that they're helping cure, right? Like there's a lot of different things that a person might be going through and will contribute as to why that they're still living at home. But I think the primary distinction for the young man listening is just are you the guy that's making excuses for why you live at home? Or are you the guy that wants to build a plan to get out of your house, but don't know where to start? I think that's part of what we're here to unpack today. And I think we should start with the guy who's making excuses, right? Like, as you said, the economy's bad. I lost my job during COVID. Inflation. Inflation, all these buzzwords that they use.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Yeah. My car payment is $800 a month. I can't afford anything else. Yeah, food is expensive, Uber Eats is starting to tax more and more.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

And they're now wrong, Jess, right? Like things are incredibly expensive. But to use these things as a crutch for why you're not moving out, and to say that you don't have a plan for moving out, right? Like not creating a plan is what's contributing to you feeling stuck because you're taking all of these outside sources, all these uh expenses, and using them as a crutch for not moving out. I think that's part of the poison that we're here to unpack too.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Yeah, listen, Rich, the name of the episode is the childhood bedroom trap. Why is it that? Because there's a lot of juxtaposition there. There's a lot of contradiction there. The image that comes to mind when you think about the grown man in his childhood bedroom, you think about this adult male, full beard, receding hairline, kind of burly, sitting in a little ass bedroom with posters from the 90s or posters from the 2000s up on his bedroom wall. There's something about that image that is a little disturbing. And you automatically, as an older guy, you want to attack a younger man to kind of shake them and be like, bro, aren't you embarrassed? You don't have no shame in your body for taking advantage of your poor parents who are ready to retire or at work in nine to five and you're still at home. I think that's the natural feeling you get when you learn about this. I know I had that feeling. But as you do the research, Rich, you start developing empathy. You don't want to excuse them for not taking action, but you kind of start looking at it like, damn, it cost $3,000 for rent in a major city, a one-bedroom? That's like the lower income area. It costs about half a million to $750,000 to even buy a regular home today next to a major city. And nobody's even talking about the percentages that you're going to pay on taxes and closing a house and all the extra fees, maintaining the house. Half of the young men graduating with degrees can't even find a job in the first four years that they're outside of college. So it makes sense. You don't want to excuse these guys, but you can almost see the math mathing. You're like, oh, okay, I understand why it's difficult to kind of build that momentum and reach your launching point. So you could start flying with your own wings on your own time into adulthood. So what happens is there's this like arrested development thing that happens. They kind of stay in the same headspace and the same type of money they make. And I think what we're speaking to is trying to build that momentum, try to build that clarity, try to build a plan to map yourself out of this fucked up situation. Because, truthfully speaking, for a lot of these guys, this situation is not their fault. It's just the situation they're in, it's the generation they're born into. But I think Rich and I don't want to give them dependencies and allow them to rest on these excuses, even though they are real.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Yeah, and I do empathize with this guy just because think about how much friction he's sort of forcefully introducing into his life. Like a security deposit is crazy high, right? Like a couple thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah, Rich, I'm sorry. I want you to map it out. Like, because for a lot of young men, they may not even know what are the first steps to going from living at home to getting your first apartment. And I think on previous episodes, you did a good job at giving the simple math and how these little small costs can lead up to bigger costs. So, how much money hypothetically you should have saved before you even take the first step?

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Yeah, listen, security deposit, first month's rent, basic furniture, money for utilities, an emergency fund, money for groceries, right? Like transportation, how you know if you're gonna be taking the bus, train, or driving your own vehicle on top of all of your existing debt.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Right. And moving costs, getting from point A to point B. Who's gonna help you move out?

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Yeah, all of that. So I get it, bro. Like on the low end, you probably need a good 10 grand to move out these days and hope that you can stay afloat after that, after the 10 grand is gone. So I sympathize with this guy. However, there are things that come by proxy of you getting your own place or roommating or getting your own space for the first time that we're encouraging young guys to go out and get because there's a lot of benefit to becoming an independent individual, to transitioning into adulthood, transitioning into manhood. And part of the nuances that we're gonna discuss is just you don't have to go zero to a hundred and try to land a luxury apartment, right? Like life is about stages and about steps, and living on your own is no different. And in my own personal life, just I could walk you through from 19 through about 27 before I ultimately saved up to buy my own home. I moved out with my brother for a year, then I moved out with one of my best friends for three years. So I lived on my own with roommates for about four years until I got my own place, my own apartment. And then I had my own apartment for another three to four years. So I highly encourage making the transition to have your own space and your own place in phases, right? Because if you try to go zero to a hundred and pay a four thousand dollar rent and then realize you actually can't afford it, and you have to live with that shame of moving back to your parents' house and say, Hey, I tried living on my own, but I failed, right? So yeah, I highly encourage to make the transition in stages.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah. And Rich, I do want to kind of microanalyze the two guys that we discussed in the intro. You have the I'm working on it guy, and you have the I'm building an escape out of this house guy. The I'm working on it guy is the guy that's been working on it for five years since the pandemic. He moved back home, he's still home, and he says he's saving money, but his parents and his friends and the people that love him can see that he's always fresh, he always got a haircut, always got a new outfit, he always buys himself something really big during income tax season, but there's no real plan there. The guy that has no plan is a guy that is aimless and he's only lying to himself. And then you got the builder. Life hit him really hard. His car did a 360 on the highway. He was heading on the path to building stability. He practices his own agency, he takes his life destiny into his own hand. And like you said, maybe a layoff. Maybe he graduated college and there's no jobs for him. Maybe he broke up with his girlfriend and he needed to reset and he came back home. That guy's saving aggressively. That guy's paying off his debt. That guy is recalibrating so he can be the slingshot that gets pulled back. And then once he pulls back with all that saving and recalibration, he can shoot himself out into the next phase of his life. The name of our podcast is called Failures. We're not against people falling, scraping their knees, getting back up, and getting back on the bike and moving forward. Rich, I do want to dissect the difference between those two guys because I think there's two types of guys listening to this episode. There's the guy that thinks he's fooling us, or maybe he thinks he's fooling himself. And then there's a dude that's actually plotting it and putting it together.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

You can tell the difference between the guy who is working on it and is not, right? Like, do you know what your credit score is? Because that's part of the contingency of you getting an apartment, is they run a credit report on you. And if you don't meet a certain number, you're not going to get the apartment. Do you know the average cost of uh rent in your area or the area where you would like to live in? If you don't know that number, you're not creating a plan, right? So there's a lot of things about wanting to make this transition that a guy needs to be working towards, that if they're not working towards it, they're just holding on to the crutch of, well, things are too expensive. Well, how do you know things are too expensive? Do you know how much money you need to move out? Do you want to move out? Right? Like that is the difference between the guy who's creating a plan versus the guy who's holding on to excuses.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

If you're a young man living at home, you're in your late 20s, early 30s, and you see no roadmap out of your mother's house, out of your childhood bedroom, you have to tell yourself, my excuses are real, the economy is real, inflation is real, the prices of homes not coming down is real. The job market not hiring is real. But you know what's realer than that? Your life situation, the responsibility that you owe your future self, that's even realer than all the things I said before. Your future self is depending on you taking small steps to get out of your situation. And you can't do that if you don't embrace the reality of what's happening right now. You don't have a plan. Like you said, Rich, if you don't know your credit score, if you don't have money in your savings account, if you have zero map, but all you have is Yap, you're never gonna get out of your mom's crib. You're gonna be there forever. You're going to be the two fucking clowns in the movie stepbrothers, trying to share a bunk bed, blaming your parents for your life not being fun. Well, at 30-something years old, your life shouldn't be fun. Your life should be something that's building a foundation of what's to come next. And only you know what comes next. But if you want a happy family, you want to be with a woman that you love, you want to potentially have kids, you want your own sanctuary, you want your own freedom. Hell, you want your own autonomy. You want to be able to sit in your bathroom as long as you want without somebody banging on the door. That starts with a plan. Sorry to go on a rant, Rich, but I just wanted to make sure that they understood the excuses are legit. We get it. The economy is fucked up, housing market is fucked up, employment is fucked up. But if you don't have no plan, the only person that's really fucked up is the future version of you and the freedom you want for tomorrow. You're not building no map, so you're gonna stay in that dark hole forever.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah, Just, you're absolutely right. And I want to call out this guy with a fake savings, right? Because if he's saying I'm working on it, but you got the latest $250 Jordans, or you door dashing every day, or you taking shorties on expensive dates, or you got a beamer that you lease, or you got the fresh clothes, right? You live in a facade of independence. You think you're popping. Your social media looks like it's popping, right? Everyone thinks, oh shit, he must got it. He's independent, he's this, he's that. He's going on trips, the way he's moving is crazy. But you live at home with mom and dad. That's why you're able to live so comfortably and so luxurious. Because you're not paying rent. The rent payment is going for you to look fresh. Yeah. I just want to be clear, bro.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Like, you're not low. You're not low. You want to know why we know that, Rich? Because we used to be that guy. A hundred percent. When you're younger, you want to show that you have your life together. Yeah, and how do you show that to the opposite sex? You show that by having a nice car, by having nice clothes, by having your life together outside, when you're at the function, you're at the party, you're at the pop-out, you're at Starbucks, you're at the link up, you're at the kickback. That is when most men like to show that they have their life together. But you're a peacock with beautiful feathers. But when we go back to your nest, you're still living with your mother and your father in a little ass nest. You might be able to trick people in the moment. Hell, you might be able to trick somebody for the weekend, but at some point, reality will set in. And that's kind of the person we're speaking to in this episode. The reality settled in, and now you're not living in that false reality anymore. And it could be one of two things, Rich. Either someone reminded you that they need more from you in order to move forward in life with you, or you had a very fucked up, life-altering situation, and the truth got so clear to you that you decided, all right, I need to start planning my way out of my parents' house. Again, the numbers are so staggering that we know for a fact men are not doing this voluntarily. All of them are not just taking advantage of the system. So we're speaking to the guy that has that moment of clarity. Damn, I got to get out of this situation. What do I do next? And that's what they're listening to this episode for.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah. And to the guy saying I'm working on it, like I just want to be clear, you are sending false signals out into the world, especially when you get into the dating world. And a woman thinks that she's subscribing to one thing, but then when she wants to have a little one-on-one time, you end up telling her, Well, you gotta sneak in because uh my room is close to the backyard. We gotta take the side entrance so my mom and dad don't see you. Oh, and by the way, my grandma's already sleeping, so we gotta be extra quiet. That was so specific. Yeah, bro, that's crazy, bro. But but think about it.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah, you can't really rock out the way you want to rock out. If you're putting in work in an apartment where you live with your parents, it's silent work you got to put in. You your girl can't even enjoy the time with you the way she wants to because she got to be quiet. You got to tiptoe to the bathroom, you got to tiptoe to the fridge. You can't be at the comfort of your own home. I think this is important, Rich, and I'm glad you brought it up because we could use shame and we could use blame and we can make these young men feel bad about their situation, but we know the truth, bro. You know the truth. If you have a shorty over and you really want to enjoy yourself, it's hard to do that when your older brother or your younger brother is fucking asking a million questions while you're on the couch watching love and basketball, trying to take this situation to the next situation.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah. Or the shorty's like, Oh, I really like him, but um, we always end up going to my place. Like, I'm wondering if he's homeless. Like she's she's never seen your place, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, the jig is up. Yeah, you're just always making excuses. The jig is up, and you know what, just like sometimes, and we spoke about this during the toxic comfort episode. Sometimes your parents are the enablers, right? And they're making things so comfortable that it's hard for you to see a life outside of your bedroom, outside of your childhood home because mom cooks every day, grandma folds all the clothes and the laundry, right? Like, you know, your dad goes and gets the groceries, your sister goes and gets the car washes. Like, you don't have to do anything but just chill and live and have fun.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

If you're 35 and you really have lived at home your whole life, Agualita was Chat GPT before Chat GPT. You used to just ask for something and it magically appeared on the kitchen table. You just asked for your laundry to get done and it magically appeared in your dresser. There are people in the house that are doing things and you're not contributing. These things don't happen by magic. So I'm sorry to cut you off, Frisch, but that's such a good point. Just living in the comfort of a home from the age of one all the way to 35, there are a lot of rude awakenings on the other side of being independent that you have zero idea even exist because you've never been. Met with friction. You've never been met with any resistance from the world. You've never had to decide, damn, I only have $100 left. What do I do? Do I eat or do I pay for this necessary thing that I need in my apartment? How do I figure this out? There is a lot of character that comes through a lot of these circumstances. And if your grandmother is taking care of everything for you, it's hard to convince a woman that wants to move in with you that you're capable of being that guy.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah. Well, what does mom say? What does the enabling mom say? Stay as long as you need, honey. Don't worry. Like, let us know when you're ready. And if somebody tells you that, it's like, oh, I'm good. Like, I'm chilling. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Like, I'm good to when, though? To when? And at what cost?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah, 100%. And you know what? To your point about, you know, dating and the woman. And I feel very strongly about this. I feel like your first encounter with being an individual and living on your own should not be living with a woman. Like you should not be using a woman as your escape plan for getting out of your parents' house. Wow. Because I've been a victim of that. Big one. And I would love to unpack that and share some of our experiences with uh living with a woman.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Joint income, right? The simple math a young man is doing right now in his early 30s, mid-30s is okay, okay, Rich. Okay, Justin. Okay, uncle, who is giving me shit every time he comes to the family party, and he's like, Yeah, Lonino, you still live here? Holy shit. Bro, when are you gonna fucking uh when you gonna move out? You can't have a kid in that little bedroom. I used to get teased a lot for being grown as fuck living in my mom's house by my uncles. But it'd be those moments that kind of wake you up where you're like, oh, okay, I can't see it because I'm living in the comfort of someone who loves me. But you know what? There is a truth to the teasing. I'm having my moment of reality, I'm having my moment of clarity. And to your point, Rich, when you have that moment of clarity, you start thinking, okay, well, I only make $4,000 a month. I only make $3,000 a month. I have two choices. I can either try to develop a skill, develop a trade so I can make more money, so I can have more money per month, or this is where you think you're a genius. I could move in with somebody. I can move in with three somebodies, I could have hella roommates, and I could split the rent, I could split the expenses, I could split the food, and I'll have a very similar situation to the one I have here. But that's a banana pill. Why is it a banana pill, Rich?

SPEAKER_01 24:34

That's a banana pill because when you need to go use the bathroom and your roommate's been in there for two hours and it's the only bathroom in the house, and your stomach is hurting, then you're like, fuck, I don't know if I could do this roommate thing any longer, right? I've been there, bro. And you know what's another angle too, just because shit, your girl, if you moved out with your girl, like she's your girl, but she's your roommate too, right? Like you're sharing living spaces. Big difference.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

There's a big difference in the two. Yes. You learn a lot about yourself and that woman when you move in together.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yes. And let me tell you the crazy handcuff with living with your lady for the first time. It's if you guys want to break up, you can't because you have to move back home. Think about that. You are trapped now with someone who you dated for 12 months. You thought she was your escape latch, and now you move in six months into moving in, you want to break up, but you can't because you'll be homeless if you do. That is a trap. Yeah. I just want to be clear.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Like the roommate thing is crazy, bro. Yeah, well, which I mean, I think that's such a good point about living with anyone. If you live with your mother or your girlfriend, if you're a man around the age 30 to 35, and you still live at home, or you split rent with a girl you now resent that used to be your girlfriend, but you're just staying with her because life is more convenient when you split every expense in half, you've signed up to live in hell in both situations. Mother and ex-girlfriend that you live with. So you turned your safety net, which was a person that was supposed to help you, into a hammock. Now you're using that safety net to rest and relax and just sit in. Don't turn your safety net into a hammock. The goal of a safety net is to be there in case of emergency, in case of a crisis. You're turning comfort into a permanent comfort. That's not what that's for. And I think that's the biggest problem when you get into the mind of someone that is saving money by living with other people, by living with their mother, by living with their ex-girlfriend. You think you're getting over on the system, but what you're doing is you're turning comfort into a new reality. That's not what it's for. Don't turn your safety net into a hammock. It's not supposed to be a hammock. It's supposed to be a safety net. Break in case of emergency, not always keep broken and open because there's always an emergency. You have to know the difference between the two because you don't develop the muscles to go out there and do your own thing. That's the biggest problem here. If you're 35, you've seen enough life. You know what it takes to survive out there. And if you don't, that is step number one. You have to jump out the window, you have to hop off the porch and figure out okay, what is this adulting shit about? Because if I don't take the first step, I'm not gonna take any step.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Yeah. Just and how about the bougie guy? The bougie guy that goes, I don't do roommates. This motherfucker. And then goes out to get an apartment, and every apartment has a smaller bedroom than the bedroom he has at home with his parents, right? Or I can't live in this neighborhood. This neighborhood's crazy. I can't live in this neighborhood. There's no balcony, there's no backyard access, there's no parking. I need somewhere to park my car. Yeah, bro. That dude is also using excuses and holding on to those excuses and delaying the transition into finding his own place because no place can be fitting for what this man is looking for. And that was my point earlier about going zero to 100. If you're living at home at 35 years old and leaving your parents' house for the first time, you need to go into that situation and that mind state with a little bit of humility. Your first spot out of your parents' house might not be the most luxurious spot, might not be the cleanest, might not be the prettiest, right? But you got to make do with what you got to make do because the benefits of you living by yourself for the first time and getting in touch with your own individuality, building more manhood principles, transitioning into adulthood is going to pay off. I promise you that.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yeah, listen, if you are a young man between the ages of 28 and 35, and you still live at home, I have two very simple realities to share with you. There's the reality on social media, and there's the reality of real life and what it looks like to move out. Social media, beautiful apartment, sky rise, beautiful view, you live by yourself, all Japanese and minimalist furniture, bonsai plant in the middle of your apartment, aesthetics, new rugs, everything perfect. Social media. Now let's flip it to reality. Living with roommates, roommates bringing other people to the house that you don't know about. Tiny apartment, crammed in a little apartment, have to go to the bathroom, have to take a shower, you're late for work. There's somebody who stood over for the night that's in the bathroom. You move into a rough neighborhood, you can't park your car anywhere, can't find no parking for your car. You don't even have a fucking car because you spent it all on rent money. So now you're taking the train. You're working two jobs. That is reality. This idea that you're too good and the living situation outside of your mom's crib is too perfect to afford to leave the house because you can't find the perfect situation for your next step. It's straight cap. You got to get over it. You got to take the first step and log off of social media because your timeline is a fucking liar. It's convincing you of a reality that doesn't exist for anybody. The social media feed is curated. How do we know? Because we're posting content that you're looking at right now. Reality tells me that you've never lived in reality. Reality is not as glamorous as the social media feed. And in order for you to get the fuck out of your mom's house, you have to take a step that doesn't look sexy, but it's progress, progress in the right direction for the freedom that you want and the freedom that you need. You need this freedom. Everything that you want in life is on the other side of this first uncomfortable step. Stop making pretend that you can have the luxury apartment when you don't make any motherfucking money. Stop making pretend you can have this luxury apartment when you don't live in a major city. It's not possible. Stop living in Make Believe Land and insert yourself into reality. It will help you live a better life. I can assure you of that.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Just you know what's reality. My first apartment having these big ass water bug roaches, big motherfuckers, bro, and me praying every time I had a shorty over that one of these motherfuckers wouldn't come crawling out of some crevice so she wouldn't see how poor my apartment looked. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

And I was, bro, that's that's real. That's real than real. I know for a fact that at the age of 33, I was in between two jobs in LA. I was in between two apartments in LA. I couldn't get a month-over-month lease. So what I did was I said, damn, I have a group of friends that their lives are incredibly lit. They're all in their mid-20s to late 20s. I'm in my early 30s. I have lived in an apartment by myself for the last four years. It's gonna be fun to move in with some roommates. I can save some money, I can mob out, I can have a good time. I'm single in LA. Who gives a fuck? Rich. It's the worst situation of my life ever. Only because I've taken three steps forward and one giant backflip backwards, and I wanted to fight every one of my roommates every other night because these motherfuckers were living free. They were living young. And it hit me one day. I think it was like month four. I have to get the fuck out of here. You want to know why? Because you get what you pay for. You get what you pay for. I reduced my rent by 50%, but I had to deal with every one of my roommates every day, living their life, being loud, playing music at night. I remember one of my roommates, and me saying this story is gonna remind and trigger all the guys I used to live with. This dude brought all his friends from a DJing set he did that night. And it was about seven people he brought back from the club with him. I was sleeping at 3 a.m. This motherfucker decided it was the perfect time to play guitar hero with all the music and the amps on all the speakers in the house. My room was right next to the living room. These motherfuckers were playing true story, playing Guitar Hero, beating up the drums, beating up the electric guitar, singing like a bunch of fools, just going crazy. Bro, I was there with my girl and I popped out of that bed so fast, I ripped the door open. I'm but mind you, I'm 33 years old, about five years older than everybody there. My afro was slanted to the side because when I sleep, my hair gets flattened. I have glasses on, I look like somebody's uncle just popping out of a fucking bush, being like, yo, what the fuck are y'all doing, bro? Bro, no lie, Rich. Some beautiful women there, some cool rock star kids were there. They all peeled back, like, yo, who the fuck is that guy? I was like, yo, I swear, if y'all don't shut this shit off, I'ma smash that video game right on the floor. See how triggered I am? That shit really happened, bro. These motherfuckers were like looking at me like, yo, where did this random old man come from?

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Does this guy own the house? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

I was so embarrassed in that moment because there were some pretty girls there. I was like, God damn. Bro. Bro, they were like, Rich, I swear. One of the girls, like, I'm sorry, mister, we'll keep it down. I was like, oh, okay. Um, you know, I I gotta work tomorrow. I went back in the room and I was embarrassed. And the next day, Rich, I was on fucking pad mapper looking for my next one-bedroom apartment that I could live by myself. And I was down to pay the three times in rent in LA just so I don't have to be at the mercy of other people. That was really the lesson learned there.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Bro, you're giving me PTSD because I remember having a roommate and I showered, you know, dry myself up, put some underwear on. I get out of the shower, and I'm, you know, I'm just with underwear on, and the door opens, and it's my roommate's girlfriend, and she goes, Ah, oh my god. And I'm like, uh, where's my boy? Like, bro, she had a set of keys to the apartment. They were dating for three months. Wow. And she was like, Oh my god, I didn't mean to walk in on you. I'm like, no, no, it's it's okay. I'm just gonna go to his room, okay? Okay, all right, bye. Awkward. And you're out there consocio, just just just chilling in the day, yeah, with little tidy whities, bro.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

You're like, what if he doesn't come back?

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Bro, I remember her leaving like at the end of the night and me having a sit down with my boy, like, bro, why did she walk into the apartment and walk in on me like that? He's like, Oh, I gave her set of the keys to the apartment. Man, I had this problem. I'm like, bro, I'm like, how long have you guys been dating? Oh, it's been three months. I didn't think it was a big deal. I'm like, my dude, you guys have been dating for three months, and you decided to make an executive decision by making a third copy of our house keys and giving it to a girl you've been only dating for 90 days. I'm like, at no point in time did you think of discussing this with me, your other half, the guy who pays the other half of the rent. And I just remember like that being an issue, and that was one pivotal moment where I was like, nah, I gotta get my own spot. Like, I can't be dealing with this type of bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Rich, we're gonna go war story for war story. I was in community college. I was still living with my mother. My mother had remarried. She was living with my steppops. My steppops, some people say that his mind isn't wired properly. He's a street dude that turned into a professional plumber, but he still has street dude tendencies. Long story short, I'm hanging out with a beautiful young lady for the night. Like you said, Rich, I met her in college. She believes I have my own apartment. Truth is, I have a side door entrance to a very, very, very you see my room, my mom's house. It's a very small room. Only two human beings could fit in it once there's a mattress in there. And the mattress folded up like a futon. So did I really have a room or did I have a bed in a closet? To be debated. Either way, the job was to convince the young lady to come back home with me after many dates. And to your point, Rich, we hung out at her spot a few times. That was always fun. She had a roommate, she was living by herself. I wasn't. End of the story is I finally get her to come home, and my trick was if I could keep this young lady out till after 2 a.m., I'm good because everybody at home is sleeping. And I could slide through the side of the door, go to my little ass closet bedroom, and do what we came there to do. Plot twist. My stepfather was in the basement, lights off, one light, his phone light pointing up, and he was no lie, Rich. I swear to everything I love. For whatever reason, he was cleaning his gun out at nighttime in the dark with the spotlight from his phone. Why was he doing that at 2:30 a.m.? I don't know. I don't know. But when I walked in and I see my stepdad sitting on the ground cleaning his gun, just know that that young lady did a U-turn and left the house. And I'm outside of my mom's crib trying to convince her to come back in. And she's like, No, I'm good. I just don't know who that guy was, kind of weird. I'm like, no, no, that's my steppop's. She was like, why is he like, why is he in your apartment? And I was like, Ah, you know, I'm I'm just taking care of my family right now. Like, that's my situation. They live with me. Yeah, the straight line, straight line. It's closing hour. Sometimes you gotta lie. Yeah, and that was a rude awakening for me, Rich. When I walked back in, my steppop's like, yo, what's up, kid? How's everything? I'm like, I'm good. I'm like, yo, what are you doing, bro? He's like, nah, I gotta, I gotta maintenance my guns, you know, whatever, whatever. I was like, cool, cool. He was like, yo, that was a pretty young girl you had with you, man. That's what's up. You're doing good for yourself. I was like, thanks. Went to my room, laid down, watched the Knicks, and went to sleep. A very sad and lonely man. And I was telling myself when I was in that little ass bedroom, I gotta get the fuck out of here. Because this is not it. I don't control my own destiny. I am not my own man. I could try to trick, lie, cheat, and steal to any woman to get her to come back with me. But the truth is none of this shit is mine. I was living in my stepfather's house. Who am I to tell him not to do whatever the fuck he wants to do in his own basement? But I had to learn the hard way. So we can go back to back to back with war stories because I've lived this. At that time, I was like 25 years old, Rich. I wasn't like a young guy or anything by any means.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Yeah, and listen, Jess, these are things you're gonna have to go through, right? Like these growing pains of having roommates or living in a room or dorming, right? Like all of these things build character at the end of the day. But I think the general thesis of what we're trying to get across is like you have to take that leap of faith, right? Like you have to enter the unknown, you have to enter the arena of figuring things out for yourself and being on your own. And I'd love to get into just some basic principles that I think would help this young guy make that transition. So for me, one of the things I can call out is just this notion of like vague ambition, like you said earlier. Oh, I'm working on it. Oh, I have a plan. Oh, yeah, I definitely want to get my own place. I'm just waiting for the right time, I'm waiting for the right apartment, I'm waiting for the right season, right? I'm waiting for the sun, is the winter right now. I'm waiting for the summer to move out, like all these excuses. And this vague ambition doesn't translate into anything if you don't have a plan, if you don't take action. So, one of the things that I would immediately recommend this young guy to do is just do your research. Understand what rent costs in your area, understand how much income you are bringing in. Audit your income, right? Because all this popping out and going to clubs and getting bottle service and buying the latest Jordan, like all these things, you're gonna have to peel that back, my boy, right? And really audit your income. It could be very well that your income is not enough to get your own place, and that is okay. That is your reality. Now you know you have to make certain pivots career-wise, so you can make the income that you need to be able to afford a rent, right? But I think it all starts with auditing yourself, auditing your reality, and not living in this fake ambition of like, oh yeah, I'm gonna get to it. Oh yeah, it's not the right season. Like all these excuses for why you're not mobilizing to move out of your parents' house.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

I love what you just said, Rich. And while you were going into actionable advice, it hit me. I didn't really think about actionable advice because I just kept thinking, damn, we need to empathize with this guy. We need to meet him where he's at. So we're really not attacking this guy. And then while you started spitting off some advice, I was thinking, oh yeah, well, we can build like we've done it before, right? Like you've done it before. You've moved out of a fucked up situation and you've moved into a better situation. Just off the top, Rich, what was a situation that you were in that you absolutely hated in your living situation? And what was probably not the best step you took, but it was a step. And when you look back, you're grateful you took a step versus trying to get it perfect on the first try.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Listen, just living at home, being an adult and having the door locked at a certain time. Like if you're not in by this time, like wow, yep. You're not staying here.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

For a grown man, that's tough. That's a tough one.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

That's a tough one. And it's a curfew. A curfew, yeah. A curfew as a 35-year-old grown man. Like, you can't live like that, right? This is part of gaining your independence.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

I want to stay there because what you're saying is one of the things that we're not talking about, about taking a small step in the right direction, is gaining your independence and really developing this idea that you have control over your own life. You can create your own freedom, even if it's in a shitty apartment, you're taking a step that it's in the right direction. No one can tell you this door closes at midnight in an apartment that you pay rent for.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Bro, if you're Latin American, African American, you've probably heard this phrase my house, my rules. And that's how I grew up. And I'm sure that the young listener listening to this is how they've grown up too, bro. If your parents are paying for everything, paying the rent, paying the mortgage, groceries, I mean, like everything, it is their rule. So you are a prisoner to your parents' rules at 35 years old. I'm not saying this to shame this young man. This is a wake-up call. This is a state of emergency. You need at 35 years old to gain your independence and be able to do the things that you want to do. If you want to stay out till one in the morning, you should be able to do that, right? And not have to worry that the door is going to get locked on you. So, bro, actionable advice and the number one thing that I could recommend the young guy who's really actually working on it and building a savings and getting that second job or doing side hustles to get more income is give yourself a date. The minute that I gave myself a move out date and I knew what goal I was working towards, that's when everything changed and the plan actually materialized because I knew that I had to have X amount saved up by this certain date, because that was my move out date.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Rich, I love what you said. I actually think I cooked up a nice little formula to help our guy out. And I want to share it with you and you tell me what each step sounds like to you, and please add to it. Simply put, if you are a grown man and you're still living at your parents' house, or you live in a situation that you absolutely hate and you want to get your own apartment, but you're the building type. You're the guy in his late 20s, early 30s, living at home, living in a fucked up situation, but you have a plan. You're saving aggressively. You're asking yourself this question every night when you're laying down on your childhood bedroom. I have to move out. But how do I move out? Should I stay at home and build, or should I just risk it all? Rich and I are developing a very simple roadmap for you. And I think an easy way to remember it is by calling it the nest roadmap from moving out of your mom's house or any fucked up living situation in 90 days. Nest N-E-S-T. N is for number. Know your freedom number. Know the number that you have to save to get out of that situation. E. The E is to eliminate the leaks. Eliminating the leaks means stop distracting yourself with stuff that's costing you money that you could be saving to get out of your home. Take small steps, tackle small problems. The S is for stack. I don't have to explain what stacking is. Stack your motherfucking bread. And if you don't have no money, stack your skills. Develop skills so you can get more money. And the T is tell. Tell somebody. Hold yourself accountable. Tell your girlfriend. Tell your mother. You and your stepfather get into an argument. I did this. I'm leaving this house in six months. I'm leaving in April. The minute you put it out into the universe, you are now accountable. You're not going to tell your mother or your father or your roommate or your best friend that you're living with that you don't want to live with no more. Hey, I'm leaving this day. You're going to feel like an idiot if you take it back. So it's the nest roadmap for moving out of your mom's house. N-E-S-T number, eliminate, stack, tell. That is a roadmap that I feel comfortable giving a young man that they can execute in the next 30 to 90 days that will definitely help them step in the right direction.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

No, I love that. And you know, you have to be able to, I think when you say the date and give yourself a time frame, you have to stick to that, right? Like you can't just put that out in the universe and then the date comes and then you look like a fool because you never actually moved out when you said you were gonna move out, right? And I think part of that is tied to the mindset that you're currently in. To your point, just you have to audit your finances, you have to stop the leakage, all that extra shit, all the popping out, all the vacations. Like you're gonna have to really stack and grind it out if you want to meet this goal. And you have to be comfortable with friction, you have to be comfortable with the unknown. Every single transition just that I took in my life was met with resistance. And to be fully transparent, I was scared, bro. Every time I transitioned into a new living situation, I was scared because I wasn't sure if I was gonna be all right. I wasn't sure if I knew how to cook enough different dishes for five days of the week. I wasn't sure if there was a nearest laundromat close by or how I was gonna do laundry, you know, or if I lost my job, if I had enough money to live and pay rent for, you know, a couple months to hold me down while I found another job. I was always living in that fear. But honestly, that fear is what brought me closer to being able to take those risks, right? Without that fear and without introducing that friction, I didn't really know that I could meet those milestones of moving out and ultimately be comfortable, right? When I made the transition to move out, and I saw that I could do it, I saw that I could pay rent all time, I could buy my groceries, I could, you know, handle all these day-to-day operations of living by yourself. I was like, oh shit, I can do it. And then the fear was reduced, right? But you only know until you take the leap of faith.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Yeah, Rich. Turn your safety net into the thing that propels you forward. A lot of guys living at home in their 30s with their parents, they're just allowing that safety net to be their hammock. They've turned it into a comfortable situation. It was supposed to be something to hold you down until you take the next step. A paycheck doesn't automatically make you independent. What you do with that paycheck makes you independent. Your nest is supposed to protect you, it's not supposed to enable you. Living at home is not the shameful part. The shameful part is when you're living at home with your parents, taking advantage of the situation that they put you in and you have zero plan to leave the house. That's the shameful part. That's the part that we are okay with telling you if you feel guilt, if you feel any type of tightness and anger and frustration about your situation, we're not the platform that's gonna shame anybody. But if you feel that within yourself, it's because you've turned your safety net into a hammock. The hammock is not a cool move, it's not the move. You have to take the first step. And Rich, like you said before, and I'm always a fan of how you break down finances for our younger listeners. In the Nest format and the Nest roadmap that we created, N-E-S-T, the first thing is know your number. And you mentioned it before, and you mentioned it again. Why is it so important to know your number in order for this thing to lead you to the result you want?

SPEAKER_01 51:21

You got to know what you're working towards, bro. You have to materialize things and you have to be able to visualize things, giving yourself the number that you need to move out, giving yourself your move out date. Like all these things make the plan tangible and concrete. And now you can build a strategy on how to obtain this number, how to reach this move out date and accomplish that. And you know what's beautiful, Juss? When you do accomplish that goal, bro, when you say you're gonna do something and you meet that goal. Great point. Yeah, you know how fire it is six months into you living on your own, when you could just call mom or call dad and say, hey, come over. I'm making food. We're gonna have dinner in my place. How good does that sound, just crazy.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Crazy. I can speak to it because I graduated high school two years later. I failed the seventh and eighth grade. I graduated at 21. I took two years off of college, went to community college, went back to college after I did a radio show with Rich. Graduated college 24-25. After I graduated, there was no form of employment for me. I was interning at a record label for zero dollars. Guess where I was living while I was interning? At my mom's house. I left school for four years as a 20-year-old, came back at 26, and I was still at my mom's house. And here's the fucked up part. My mother was remarried. She was living with my stepfather, and my stepfather bought the house. So now he had this grown-ass man living in his house when he was walking around in his underwears hanging out with my mom for the last four years. Who the fuck is this grown man in the refrigerator? Who the fuck is this grown man in the pantry? Who the fuck is this grown man that doesn't pay rent, doesn't do laundry, is always talking to his mom about how he's gonna leave but never contributes? I can finally see it as a 40-year-old man, how my stepfather saw it. Hey man, if you don't start contributing in this house, I'm gonna have to start charging you rent. This is not a fucking hammock. This is a safety net. Either you figure out how to get the fuck out of my house, or I'm gonna have to start charging you for living here. I can relate, Rich, because that guy is me. I abused the privileges that were afforded to me by the woman who birthed me. Now I love my stepfather to death, and me and him have a great relationship. But at that time, we had the worst relationship. Because every time I would want to spend money, he would always ask me, yo, what are you doing with your money? When are you gonna move out? And I would take it as some sort of a backhanded thing that he was telling me. But what does that mean to you, Rich? If you have a grown man in your house, 27 years old with no plans of leaving, would that be an insult to you? You're a homeowner, you have a son.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Yeah, man. Listen, it's like someone with crutches who like doesn't want to teach himself how to walk or doesn't want to rehabilitate, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Like it's a grown, healthy man with crutches.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

Yes, yeah, strong. And you know what, just I know the the general thesis is like helping this young guy to move out of his parents, but it's really not about that, bro. It's really about doing something pivotal in your life that's going to give you the independence that you need to transition into manhood. Like, I really genuinely feel that if you're 35, 36, 37 years old, still living at home with your parents, and the goal is eventually to meet a woman, eventually to be married, eventually to have kids, eventually to have your own house, white picket fence, job, etc. How do you do that if you're still at home with your parents? How do you learn how to become independent? How do you cook for those children? How do you learn how to pay bills on time? You don't learn all these skills still living at home with your parents. So I just want to reiterate that yes, it's partly about moving out on your own, but more importantly, it's about gaining your independence as an individual so you can gain the skills that you need to grow into manhood, into adulthood, and know how to deal with friction as life you know tends to give every man.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Rich, I know we're getting to the end of the episode, but I do want to present a quick steel man argument because I do believe what I just read and I added it to the show script because it's valid. Some men genuinely, genuinely cannot afford to move out of their parents' home at this moment, and it is more difficult to live even with a roommate in major cities or areas near major cities, which typically have better forms of employment. A lot of men just graduated and they are paying back loans while they're trying to find employment. It is true that the employment market is nearly frozen for young men with entry-level skills due to many variables, including AI doing a lot of remedial, redundant, automated work. These are facts, Rich. You and I are smart enough to know that these are facts. I don't want young men to resent us or feel like we don't see them without mentioning this. What is your response to that? And how do you meet this man halfway that is legitimately telling you these reasons why they can't move out right now or in the next six months?

SPEAKER_01 56:54

No, listen, I love that. Get your hustle on, right? Like there's still a plan, there's still a goal, right? But you're dealt with a certain circumstance and you're dealing with that accordingly. I had a friend who had two children and a wife and moved in with the in-laws to be able to save 30, 40, 50 grand to purchase a home. I've had more than one friend actually do that. That has become the new norm. You know how difficult it is to save $50,000, $60,000 for a down payment on a house? It's extremely difficult. So if you have to resort to moving back with your parents in order to build that nest egg and they're comfortable with that, and that's the plan, then so be it. Take advantage of that opportunity. But what you can't take advantage of is your parents' kindness, is abusing the opportunity. That is the poison.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

Yeah, there's a Spanish phrase. We say it often because Rich and I are Spanish, Rich is Dominican, I'm Puerto Rican. It's un sin vergüenza. What does that mean, Rich? It's somebody that doesn't have shame. They're openly abusing the opportunity and the people that love you in order to get straight value out of people and not give anything back. A grown man living with their parents with zero game plan, zero savings, popping out, got fucking Van Cleef bracelets, got their own little creator channel. They're wearing true religions, they got all the latest fashion. Bro, that's a sim Bedwenza. That's somebody that's taking advantage of the situation. Your poor mother works a bullshit ass job in her 60s, and you're living in her house lying to people, talking about you lit. That is someone that is living without shame. We are not speaking to that guy because that guy has no hope. I love that you said it, Rich. If you have a plan, this episode is for you. We see you, we recognize you, we want to offer you grace because that is true. You need grace in order to get out of your situation. How does Rich and Justin know that? Well, Rich is 38, Justin is 40. I lived this episode that we're recording today. I've lived it five separate times. I lived it at 19 when I got into community college and took a hella loans to get into a college. I lived it at 24 when I came back home and I had to live with my mom and my stepdad, who had just entered my life. I didn't know what it was to live with a stepdad. I learned quickly that that wasn't my dad. He had rules for me that I didn't like. I had to move out. I learned it when I moved to Manhattan when I got my first job, and I lived with like five roommates, terrible situation. Don't ever live in the Bronx or Brooklyn. I learned it when I moved in with my first girlfriend and it ruined our relationship moving in together. And then I also learned it when I came to LA and I had no plan, I had no savings, and I had to live with five 20-year-olds in my mid-30s. Trust me, Rich and I are the person that can offer advice on this episode because we lived all versions of this same situation. So we're not shaming. What we are saying is if you don't have a plan, you're full of shit. Tueres un sin vergüenza. You're somebody that don't have shame. You're trying to finesse the system, and we see you, you're not low. If you have a plan, we're going to offer you grace for sure. Get it together. I love that you said that, Rich. I felt that in my spirit because those five times in my life that I needed to figure it out and I needed time to figure it out, I would only hope that people would offer me grace.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

Yeah, man. Listen, you're the bird in the nest, and we're telling you to get out of the nest, flap those wings, and fly out of your parents' house, right? No more. The economy's bad, inflation is high, rent payments are high. Bro, I got news for you. They're just going to keep getting higher.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

Yeah. So shit hasn't come down since I started working. Yeah, this shit ain't the stock market. Like, and Rich, I'm telling you, listen, I I think I think we can both agree with this line. We're not telling you to move out impulsively. What we're telling you is to have a plan. This is about planned independence. It's not about recklessly taking a risk and not knowing what comes next because you don't have enough money in the bank, or you move in with some random ass people in a random ass neighborhood. We're not saying that. We're not saying to be impulsive and irrational, but we're saying you have to take a step, not no step.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

Take action. We say that every episode. Take action. There you have it, man. Failures podcast. Listen, we hope something in this episode resonated with you. If you like what you heard, share it with a friend, colleague, brother, or anyone you think it could help. Justin and I are always here to help. So hit us in the comments, send us an email. Uh, follow us on all social medias, man. We love to hear from our community. Just another one in the books. We're out of here. Peace.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:44

Stop living with your mom. If you're 35, at least clean the blades in the bathroom sink when you finish shaving. We're out of here.