SPEAKER_01 0:02

You have to excuse people who don't understand what it is that you want. And you have to beg for forgiveness, man, because your life is your life. You have to live your life at a certain point. Your mother and father had their time and they had their life choices. Don't burden yourself with guilt for what they were not able to accomplish. Unfortunately, that's not your responsibility. I know it sounds crazy to say it out loud, but you have everything in front of you. You should put your best foot forward. Failures Podcast. Today we're talking about the first generation tax. The hidden pressure that comes with being the successful son of immigrant parents. If you know, you know. Are you a first generation kid who became the family translator, the guy who looked over bills, the guy who explained stuff to your mom when she didn't understand it, explained stuff to your dad when he didn't understand it. Now you become the family success story. You are the ultimate living proof to your immigrant parents and grandparents that all their struggles, coming to this country, struggling through everything was worth it. Look at you. You are the representation of everything that they wanted and tried for. Now you went from the son who lives with his parents, who they rely on for everything, and now you quietly become someone that's been burdened by that same role you had when you were younger. And you don't really tell anyone, but in your most quiet, most honest moment, you're a little exhausted by the invisible pressure that your parents put on you. This is what this episode's about. It's about the burden that comes with being a first-generation kid that has slowly achieved his goals, and you've become the manifestation of what your parents wanted for you. Rich and I can really relate to this. I come from some New York Recon parents that dropped out of school in the seventh and eighth grade. I know Rich's parents are Dominican. He'll tell his story. Rich, honestly, as the son of Dominican parents, you had a quote that you read to me earlier that I thought was a great setup for the episode. Why'd you pick this quote? And what's the quote?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Man, the quote is young men are carrying their own dreams and their parents' unfinished dreams at the same time. And that quote spoke to me, man, because that's exactly how I feel. I feel like once you've accomplished your goals and once you've gone through the school system, elementary school, high school, college, you've graduated, you got the job now, and you're a high net worth individual and living a relatively successful life, it's hard to turn back to your parents and see that they might be stuck in the same living situation, right? Or they can't go on as many vacations as you go on, or you're going and shopping at Whole Foods and they're still going to shop, right? Right. Like there's a significant difference in the way you live your life now versus your parents. And ultimately that distinction carries guilt that you have to navigate through.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

So you're saying like walking that thin rope between what was your life and you know, honoring the people that came before you and paying respect to your parents for putting you in this position, but also growing and moving forward and feeling like a little guilt and conflict from going a little too far from where you came from.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Yeah. And I think like, how fortunate are we that we get to live out our dreams, that we get to work on things that we're passionate about? Like, I don't think our parents necessarily had those luxuries. They were living in a place of survival mode, right? They're coming into this country for the first time. They're probably leveraging government assistance because they're not making enough money. They're trying to help put you through school and help keep you alive and feed you and keep you healthy. A lot of the attention goes to you, right? Goes to raising you, making sure that you become a positive member to society. And they sort of lose themselves in the process. So their dreams go on the back burner and you become the priority. But then when you grow up and you become the successful individual, you feel like you want to go back and help them finish some of those unfinished dreams that they had. And sometimes it could be material things, sometimes it could just be like a trip or a vacation that they've always wanted to go on that they were never able to do.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, Rich, I mean, if you think about what you just said, immigrant parents don't do passion jobs. Immigrant parents don't do dream jobs. Immigrant parents definitely do not understand, like, hey, mom, I'm gonna take a break from school and I'm gonna get into day trading. I found a unique angle that I could take on day trading and it's gonna work out in the end, trust me. Just let me live in your house. Immigrant parents don't do, hey, mom, I'm really focused on my influencer agency right now. And I, you know, I'm working with a few influencers, and you know, it's gonna take me a few years to figure out, but trust me, at the end of the day, it's all gonna map out. Just give me some time. Let me live in this room. If you were to tell your mother something like that, Rich, what exactly do you think she'll tell you?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Bro, she would not understand the mission, right? Like immigrant parents, if you're not a doctor, lawyer, police officer, right? Like something of an obvious trade to them, they just think like you're wasting your time, you're not becoming a professional. Like, it's so crazy how there's a whole set of jobs that they have no idea about. And, you know, in my profession, right, when I told my mom that I work in cybersecurity, like she thought that I was like in forensics or I was some sort of like FBI, like technology forensics officer. She was just like, I don't know exactly what you do. I know it's something with computers, right? Like, that's as simple as she's able to put it. And you know, it's no fault of their own. I think it's just a matter of what they've been exposed to and what they understand the work environment to be, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah, Rich, I am 40 years old. I've been doing the same job for 15 years. I've been in entertainment for 20 years. Just this Friday, my mom came back from Dominican Republic. We were just talking, catching up. I said, Ma, I gotta let you go. I have to pack for my flight. She's like, Where are you going? I said, I'm going to Atlanta. She said, I just, I still don't understand why you fly so much. Can't you just do it from where you're at now? Like, I hate that you fly so much. I'm like, no, I have to fly for my job. I have to physically be in this location. She's like, I just don't understand why. And then she said, you know, I really don't even know what you do still, but it's fine. I love you. Uh, be safe and you know, let me know when you get when you land. And I thought that was very telling and very fitting to this episode. When you're a first generation kid and you are starting your career, I think a lot of the communication with your mother and your father, it's invested in explaining to them why you're doing what you're doing. I think some of them are even confused that you just sit in an office all day and you're on your laptop all day, or you have to travel to work event, I mean, to family events, looking at your phone or being on your laptop all the time. These are the kind of things that people that are not first generation or or the kids of immigrants, they would never be able to relate to because I think a lot of the parents that have been in this country for a while, they already have that grace that they give their children for having dream jobs, pursuing their passion, or even breaking open their laptop in the middle of a family event because they have to do work.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah, just I think that immigrant parents just understand stability, right? And things that they're used to and things that they feel comfortable with. I don't think they necessarily understand you chasing an opportunity, you creating new goals for yourself, right? Like you doing something like moving from one country to another. Like that seems so risky to them that they're just like, man, I hope that you don't fail on your pursuit of accomplishing this like dream that you're chasing, right? And I think that they come from a place of survival, right? Like in their upbringing and their generation, they did things to survive, to put food on the table, to provide, to keep the lights on, to keep a shelter, right? Like very basic fundamentals. And we're saying, like, nah, you know that I can actually get a degree, get a high six-figure job, and like purchase a house, right? We don't have to rent anymore. Or you know I can go out and purchase a vehicle, right? Like we don't have to take taxis anymore, right? Like this is all these things that like you become the person in the family that goes out and pursues a dream, hopefully accomplishes that dream. And now there's a lot of education that you have to do when you go back home to explain to your parents what you're doing, what you're working on, where your income comes from, and why you're choosing to live the lifestyle that you're you're living.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Rich, I can draw a line from the day I left my mom's house to today. I'm 40 years old. Of every step of my life where I took a step forward and upward, I had to do a 101 crash course for my mother on why I was doing that. Community college, why that? Why not just go to a trade school? Four-year school at Rutgers, why that? Why not just work and pay rent here with the community college, a minor that you got? Starting a radio show. Why would you start a radio show and work for free? That doesn't make any sense for me. Media company. I don't understand why you're always with Rich and the other guys. Why are you doing that for free? Why do you drive every Tuesday and come back at 3 a.m. if it's for free? You need to pay rent at this house. Leaving the house. Hey, I'm trying to understand why it is that you're gonna take out a loan to go to college when you could live here and just pay us the money that you're paying for moving to New York, getting my first job, getting my first apartment. Every step of that ladder was the byproduct of being a kid that's a first-generation person that had to explain to my mom, oh, this is why I'm doing what I'm doing. And I have a little bit of envy, or I used to have a lot of envy when I was younger, and I would see my more affluent non-immigrant friends not have to explain these things to their parents. Not only did they not have to explain these things to their parents, their parents would send them money and be like, hey, I support what you're doing. I remember when I did it, it was much easier to get into Ruckers in the 80s. My mother dropped out of school in the seventh grade. She does not understand what a FAFSA form is, a financial aid form. She doesn't understand what enrollment is, she doesn't understand with anything that had to do with me getting into a college. So I still feel a lot of that resentment. And in the prep for this show, I'm reading and thinking about a Nigerian kid, first generation, a Chinese kid, first generation, an Albanian kid, first generation. If I really think about those parents and how traditional they are and what they did to succeed in their homeland, and them trying to understand and explain to their kid, I don't understand why you're doing what you're doing. My heart goes out to this person listening to this episode because I relate in a different kind of way, but I definitely do relate. It is hard to explain every step of your progress to your passion and your dream to your parent along the way because most of the time they're not supporting you. They're questioning you because they're in fear of you fumbling the opportunity that they were able to get you.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

100%, Jess. And I 1000% relate to everything you just said. I remember vividly trying to explain to my mom what a FAFSA application was. And the minute that it involved her taxes, she was like, I don't want the government meddling into my information. Bro, you know how I got through college? I had to steal her tax forms and quickly like apply for FAFSA on my own with her information. Bro, is that real? Is that real? That's a true story. I'm not making this up. This is not something for the show. Like, I stole her tax forms to complete my FAFSA and then put them right back where I got them from.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Rich, stop right there. That is the episode. This is the episode. The involuntarily hurdles and challenges that come from truly having parents that do not understand the opportunity they've given you. That's really where the episode starts, right here. And that's a great story. Like, can you blame her? That's kind of what I'm saying. Is like, can you blame her? You could almost understand her as an adult, but at that time, you must have been annoyed.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Well, that's what I'm saying. The beauty about life is that time will give you hindsight. And now that I look back on it, I forgive her for not understanding what the fuck I was trying to do or not knowing what FASFA meant, right? Like, does anybody explain that to an they didn't even have the application in Spanish, I think, back in the day for her to even read? That's a fact, right? That's a fact, you know. So I don't fault her for that. But to your point, just these are some of the hurdles that I had to go through just to put myself through college, just to get a little bit of the free money to prove to the government that we were low income just to get a little bit of money to put myself through college, which by the way, I still had to take out student loans for myself and you know, repay them. But I think if we're speaking to the young man that feels this pain, bro, that relates to our stories. My piece of advice, if you're going through this right now, bro, is stop begging to be understood. I feel like you should definitely tell your parents what you're trying to do. Tell them what you're working on, be as transparent as possible up front, but that's where it stops. Once you laid out the roadmap, just go about your business and continue doing what you're doing. Don't feel the need to have to overexplain yourself every step of the way. You already laid out the roadmap. You told them what you were working on. The way that they gain respect and acknowledgement on what you're doing is through action. Once they see that you finished college and they have to attend your graduation and you're putting on a cap and gown, now they visually tangibly see, oh, my son is on a mission, he's on a journey. He's doing something that I wasn't able to do for myself or my parents weren't able to do for me. But now he's taking the last name baton and putting himself through college. He's on the pursuit of something greater than what I was able to achieve.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Rich, if you really think about what you just shared with us, what we're talking about here is first generation kids breaking through invisible glass ceilings in order for you to achieve whatever dreams and vision your parents or their parents had when they first came to this country. Nobody just leaves where they're from in order to pursue freedom, the pursuit of happiness, opportunity. You listen, you can say what you want about the United States, you can feel how you want about the United States, but if you're not the child of an immigrant, you don't know. They remind you every day back in Puerto Rico, this is not a real option. You should take advantage of it. The irony of that, and almost this paradox, is they're telling you and showing you all these opportunities you have, but there is a hidden pressure and hidden hurdles that come with being the successful child of immigrant parents. There are these things that most people won't relate to. And Rich, I'm glad that you shared that story because think of the alternate sliding doors version of your life where your mom actually is successful in hiding her taxes from you because she believes, for whatever reason, I think it's because of Une Bis Young, but she believes for any reason that because you have her tax papers and you're going to use them to prove that you guys are lower income to bring the cost down on your college education. Do you not know the domino effect that you would have had to have the burden of if she would have successfully hid them papers from you? You probably would have left Montclair State University with $100,000 of loans if you didn't find that paperwork.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Yeah, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

That's a major crippling life moment that you're like, man, my mom hit her tax forms. Now I got $50,000 extra in debt. These are the hidden and invisible hurdles that being a child of an immigrant comes with.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah. And you know, it's really up to you to educate them and shit, do things that are a little unorthodox, bro. Like I went into lie to them, steal their tax forms. Steal. I was like, where does this lady keep her taxes? Right wow. By the way, Jess, I had to do that four times. Yeah. For four years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Imagine one year you didn't get it off. It was a $20,000 tax. That's crazy. We did not prep this story. We did not discuss this beforehand. I'm genuinely shocked you did that. That's actually funny. You did have another story in the pre-show that I wanted you to share. And I'm gonna share my version first, but I do want to hear your story about when you first had your kid and your mom was giving you trouble about moving out. When I was in community college, I was like barely hanging on a string in terms of my academic standing, because till this day, it is on my transfer portal, on my transcripts from community college. I think I had like a 1.8 GPA. It was embarrassingly terrible for someone that wanted to go to college, the GPA that I had. The only reason why I got into Rutgers is because of the media company we started and the radio show that we started, because Rutgers figured out that I wasn't a student on campus, and they'd offered me a roadmap from community college to a four-year university, state school, Rutgers University, because of how much attention I was bringing their School of Arts and Science through the radio show. That was the only reason why I got an opportunity. Outside of that, I was guaranteed to drop out of community college after year one because my grades weren't up to par and they could my financial aid couldn't be covered. I got into the craziest argument with my mother because of my stepfather, who was telling my mother, rightfully so, hey, this guy is 22 years old. He lives in this house. He doesn't do laundry and he doesn't pay rent. And he comes in and out every day as he pleases. From this point forward, Justin has to pay $900 in rent. He has to contribute to the house in some way, shape, or form. And I remember getting into a shouting match with my mother while I was holding a basket of clothes. By the way, did not know how to wash them, but I was holding a basket of clothes and I was yelling at her, do you not understand what it is that I'm trying to do? I'm trying to get the fuck out of this house so I could go to college. And she's shouting back at me, you have to drop out and you have to get a job. Stepdad will not let you live here if you don't start paying rent. And we're going back and forth, and that day was such a huge moment for me because I remember sitting in my little ass room and thinking, damn, I have to drop out of school because my mom said I have to pay rent. I have to get a construction job because my mom says I have to pay rent. Rich, if I would have never pushed through, I would have been working construction to this day, and I would have not been doing this show with you. Any of these accolades, these trophies, any contribution I've made to music as a professional would have never happened. I do believe that there are millions and millions of kids right now going through the same thing we went through, and they have to make that decision to push through because their parents just don't see the vision. And I know you have a very similar story, but you have to take a step back and remember, damn, my life could have been a lot different if I wasn't resilient, if I didn't push through.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

That's real. And you know, in my situation, I was 24 years old, just had a child. I vividly remember uh my son coming over two weeks old, right? Had him in the bassinet, two weeks old and taking care of him. And my mom walks in the room and she goes, So uh that move out date is still July 28, right? And I just remember looking at her like, damn, like you still gonna hold me to that date? Like, you are you not seeing my my current circumstances? But you know, I I reflect on that moment just and I don't blame her for it. I don't hold any resentment towards it. I think immigrant parents have a weird way of sort of uh nudging you and pushing you along in into adulthood and into manhood. And in the moment, it feels very painful, right? Because you feel like they don't understand what you're trying to do or they don't understand your current circumstances. But from their perspective, it's just like you're gonna have to fend for yourself. And I think in in your story and in my story, that was our parents' way of saying, like, hey, if you're not paying this amount of rent, like you gotta go and figure life out on your own. And by the way, when I gave my mom a date, the lesson there was you're a man. When you say you're gonna do something, you do it. No matter what life throws at you, you know, you don't change the date. You gave me a Date you meet that deadline. And guess what? I met the deadline. I've never lived with my mom since, right? Wow. So there's a hard lesson to be learned through every like pivotal moment of friction that you have with your immigrant parents growing up.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Rich, there's one simple rule I have when it comes to parents and them getting in the way of what you want to do with your life. And if you're the son of an immigrant parent, what you have to remember is they can fear for you and the life choices you want to make for yourself. They're allowed to fear for you, but what they are not allowed to do is have final approval over your life choices. And I think that is a very important disclaimer we have to make for this young man because a lot of the pressure and a lot of the conflict and a lot of the strain that he feels from being the son of an immigrant parent is damn, I feel like I owe a lot to my parents. I feel like I owe a lot to my mother. She put me in this position. I don't want to disappoint her. And what Rich and I want to share with you is that's cool, man. They're your parents. Of course they're going to fear for you. They don't want you to take risks. They don't want you to be a failure. They don't want you to move back home. That's why they want you to get a real job. That's why they want you to do something stable. But they can fear for you, but they can't have final approval over your life decisions. And don't ever forget that when you're making these decisions, it's okay, man. Sometimes you got to plow forward, even with little shame on you. It's all good. I'm going to disappoint you today, but you'll be proud of me tomorrow. That's something that I definitely did in that moment when I was arguing with my mom about paying a punk ass $900 for rent for the month. No, I know my family didn't need it. But my stepdad, like to your point, Rich, he wanted to show me accountability. And what did I do? I went to Rutgers University, took out a $30,000 loan, and it was like, fuck it. If I fail, I fail. If not, I'm coming back home. I got to pay $900 a month. But the point I made earlier is still true. My mom feared for my life choices, but she didn't have final approval. I made my final decisions.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yeah, but you know, just those are the bumps and bruises that ultimately shape who you are, right? And if if you're ever confronted with a difficult life choice in that very moment, like that example in your life taught you that, oh, you are resilient. You can deal with adversity and pivot and find solutions to like complex issues, right? And I think the distinction is here that there's a lot of emotions that a young man is going to go through when they've left the house, right? And they've built a successful life for themselves. And it's strange how you can feel happy for your success and guilt at the same time. Well, why do you feel guilt? You feel guilt because you feel like you left the people that you love from back home behind. You feel like you're having amazing life experiences that your family will probably never experience. You feel like you're making income that your family has to work two years, three years to reach, right? And that guilt, I think, eats you from the inside, right? Because you don't know how to solve for that guilt and that pain of like, yeah, man, my parents sacrificed everything for me. And I'm over here in Aruba, chilling in the beach, you know what I mean? Posting Instagram photos, living my best life.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Listen, the American dream is a lie if you're the son of an immigrant family. Because in that dream, you were told if you achieve X, you will feel free. You will have no burdens. You will feel guilt-free. But the truth is, when you succeed with immigrant parents who didn't have a lot, what happens is you start feeling like you betrayed somebody. You start feeling that guilt. You start feeling that shame. You do feel like an imposter sometimes. You actually feel like you betrayed your whole family. You betrayed your culture. You betrayed your parents. That's what this episode is about. It's that feeling that you feel when you succeed because of the position that other people put you in. And now you have to go through that guilt. So, Rich, I love the illustration and the visual you gave us of just hanging out in Aruba, knowing damn well your mother's never even really traveled outside of the country except for going back home.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Yeah. And you know what ends up happening, just I feel like over time that guilt gets the best of you. And then you know what happens? You start to want to do things to help out, right? You start to want to help out the family financially. You become like the family's emergency fund. You become the go-to guy for all the crises to solve, right? Because yo, you're you're successful, like you're the guy who's well off. Like you're doing the best out of everyone in the family. You got it, my man. You gotta come help us, right? Yep. And unfortunately, sometimes that works out, right? If you're in the liberty to to help out, and sometimes that digs you in a deeper hole because yeah, you might from an optics perspective and the paper perspective, you have the diploma, you have the degree, you have the income. But guess what, my man? You have expenses too, right? So you have to pay your expenses, but now you have to go back home and try to help solve everyone else's problems too. And I think that guilt can sometimes morph into a womb where you're solving for family issues, but you're also drowning yourself at the same time, solving your life issues as well as your family's.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Yeah, Rich, you mentioned it earlier. It's the invisible invoice, it's the invisible invoice, aka the good son contract, the favorite son contract. You're the one who made it. I love you. You're my favorite. Stop me if this feels familiar to you. This is the burden that comes with being successful. But these people that put you in this position to be successful, if you come from a certain type of family, oh, they'll definitely remind you it's because of me. And if it wasn't because of them, it's because you have their DNA. My father says this all the time. Claudio Cassie, that's a Duran. He got Duran in him. That's my son. Of course he accomplished that. That's because of me. What a ridiculous thing to say. What a crazy thing to say. It's like, yo, I went to college on my own, I took all these tests on my own, I did all these things on my own. For you to just swoop in and take all that credit is kind of insane. But I do understand where they're coming from.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Just you want the perfect illustration for the good son contract. During Christmas, we go family by family, opening up gifts, right? Like my brother goes first, my mom will go next. Your family does this. Yeah, my family does this. And then when it's my turn to like distribute my gifts, everyone goes, Oh, the best gifts in the family. Like they just assume that because I make good income, that these are the best gifts that Santa Richie has to offer. Or like these are the best gifts they're gonna get for the entire Christmas. I just think that's pretty funny.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Santa Richie is fire. Wait, why are you Santa Richie? Because you'll be giving out good ass gifts. Yeah, and because my name is Rich and they think I'm rich. But the good son contract is something that we discussed, but that doesn't really happen until the son of an immigrant family is a little later in their career, right? Like, but what happens is if you've been running the good son contract for years and years and years without boundaries, you've never pushed back, you've always given back. What's under the surface eventually starts bubbling up as a little silent resentment. You get you get what I'm saying? And that silent resentment starts to change the way you look at the people that you gave a lot to. And that's kind of where I want to settle on this segment because you have to be careful, because that resentment could be aimed in the wrong direction, because you have to you have to truly understand the position you put yourself in. It's really not their fault, it's more your responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I think you have to acknowledge this for yourself. Man, this this just made me reflect on something because it could also be the good daughter contract. So I actually dated a girl, bro, who was an accountant, CPA certified, made a shit ton of money, right? Very successful, very smart girl. And she would tell me about like her mother problem. She lived with her mom and her brother, and she told me that her mom filed for bankruptcy, right? Because she maxed out her credit cards. Even though the girl was giving her mom money, like, oh, here, pay this credit card off. The mom was just spending the money and still racking up the credit cards. Long story short, the mom files for bankruptcy, gets another credit card, maxes that one out too, and then expects the daughter, the girl that I was dating, to help pay the credit card off. And I told this girl, I said, Do you not realize what your mom is doing here? Like, she just thinks that she's gonna make all these terrible financial decisions and that you're going to bail her out every time. Like, this also happens, you know, to women as well, not only like young men. It's like parents just think that, oh, you came from me and you owe me, you know, and I'm gonna be reckless financially because you got it, you're successful, you're CPA certified, you went through college, right? Like you're a professional. Like, help me out, help a little old old me out. And it is just crazy to me.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

That is something that has probably come up in four of our episodes, right? Like setting boundaries is one thing that we say a lot here. And I do want to get into a mode of sharing actionable advice with the young man who's listening, and they're probably nodding their head the whole episode, like, yep, that's me. Yep, I've definitely experienced that. And one thing that we could jump in and say is this is going to sound repetitive if you are a day one failures fan. But if you have issues with your parents not respecting you, not allowing you to put limits on what access you give them to your time, what access you give them to your personal life, and more importantly, how much money you share with your family, you have to set boundaries. And if you skip the boundaries, it turns into a silent resentment. That resentment bubbles inside, and you start feeling angry towards these people that you should love. But once you set the boundaries, it's a little uncomfortable at first, but after a while it becomes the norm. And I can say that from personal experience, Rich. I've said this before and I'll say it again. I have one simple, strict rule when it comes to my family of 270 cousins and about a hundred other immediate relatives. I don't do business with family. I don't. I just don't. I don't because it comes with so much pressure. I'll give away something to my family with no expectations of getting it back because I don't have to suffer the feeling of knowing, damn, this person owes me money or this person owes me something they said they were gonna give me. That right there is where the resentment comes from. The conflict comes from giving, hoping that you're gonna get it back, even if it is a loan. So I don't do business with family. Now I'm not saying that that has to be your philosophy. I'm just saying set some boundaries for yourself because if you don't, you're going to be angry most of the time. And disclaimer, you're not betraying your family, you're not betraying your culture. You are truly evolving. That's what you're doing. And if again, if you think your grandparents came to this country with the simple goal of just coming here and remaining status quo, you're wrong. They came to this country because they wanted to progress. They wanted an opportunity at the American dream to live a life with no constraints. Go for what you believe in. They may have forgotten that. They may have gotten older and forgotten that. But the truth is, if you're in pursuit of that and you can see that in front of you, you can see the flag of freedom in front of you, chase it. Chase it. And don't feel so bad because you're not betraying your culture. You're just evolving. And I can say that with confidence, Rich, because I've grabbed many flags on my journey to being the most misunderstood person in my family. And it sucks in the moment when your family doesn't understand you and you got to keep explaining yourself or not explaining yourself. But when you get what you really want, man, the feeling is incredible. And what I found out, most of my family members cheered me on after I got what I wanted. Once I got the trophies, they understood it. It's true. Once I graduated, they understood what I was pursuing for the last six years. All the arguments I had with my mother made sense after the fact.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Yeah, man, I think it's okay to have gratitude, right, for what your parents have done for you, but also have ambition at the same time, right? Like this is not uh one or the other. Both can be true at the same time. I think this weird dynamic where some parents feel like, hey, I did all this for you. I sacrificed so much you owe me is crazy, right? Because I don't necessarily feel like you owe them financially, right? Especially if your mom has a husband who works a full-time job, right? Who helps and provides. I feel like your duty as a son, as a child, is certainly to have gratitude and give as much as you can. But don't give to the point where it's gonna drown you, right? Yeah. And give from your heart, give from a place of gratitude. Don't give because you feel like you have to, because you feel like mom expects it, because you feel like you're a bad son if you don't. And it's weird just because in some cultures, this is expected. It's expected that the son, when he reaches a level of success, goes back and helps the parent financially. And in some aspects, that is true. And you know, you you have to culturally help your parents. But if you're I'm speaking for my culture, right? Like if you're Latino American, like that's a weird nuance that we should definitely um. I mean, think about it, Rich.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

If you were able to go to college or work a corporate job where you've met people outside of people that come from immigrant families or second generation or first generation families that are from the hood, that are struggling, that are basically meeting the bare minimum of how to provide for your family week over week, month over month. If you know what that feeling feels like, then we're from the same place. That family loyalty script is something that can quickly turn into dependency. And when you become the most dependent person in a family that has seven adults that are all older than you and should be able to provide for themselves at the very least, that family loyalty script, it can become toxic. It can become something that is being overdependent on you. Now, here is my advice for anyone that is struggling with setting boundaries with their family, especially if you come from an immigrant family, first generation family, and you have trouble setting boundaries. Here's three very easy things that I could tell you to do today that will give you a lot of freedom to not feel guilty. One, set firm boundaries. Two, speak clearly, do not mince words. Hey, this is the last $400 I'm gonna share with you. After this $400, I got no more money. Please do not come back to me. Hey, this is the second time I'm covering your groceries. You know, I love you, but this is the last time. Speak clearly. Number three, expect disappointment. Bonus. Be okay with basking and sitting in other people's disappointment in you. As long as you've come to the conclusion that you've tried, you truly tried to help more than one time and it's never gone in your way, and this person keeps coming back, you have to be okay with expecting disappointment and being comfortable with disappointment, being comfortable with shame. Rich, you know this is really my thing. I've been saying this since episode one. Draw boundaries, man, and be okay with or other people being disappointed in you. Because if not, you will be in the perpetual carousel of man, you changed. Man, this dude ain't even loyal to the family, man. This dude acts different. You got to be okay with it. If you want to move on, you have to be okay with it. Yeah, Justin.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

By the way, you changed as a compliment. Bingo. Were you not supposed to change? Were you not supposed to evolve as an individual? Were you not supposed to push forward your last name? You're supposed to change, you know? And I do a lot of interesting things to let my family know that I have changed and that we have changed as a family. And it's small nuances, just, but like I did take my parents on a trip to Miami, like, all paid for, right? Like I wanted them to see, like, they've never been to Miami. Shit, they've never been outside of New Jersey, right? Other than like going back to DR to see family. So I'm like, hey, you know, there's like domestic states we could just travel to and have beautiful weather, have a really good time. So I took my mom to Miami for the first time, right? When I have barbecues, bro, I get the best cut steaks, you know what I mean? Like to splurge on, because I'm like, hey, guys, we don't have to do burgers and hot dogs anymore, right? Like, we can eat a nice little prime rib steak and New York strips and ribeye and all these like good cuts of meat. So these are like little ways that I just let my family know, like, hey, not only have I changed, but we've changed. We're doing better for ourselves. Like, let's enjoy life, let's let's splurge a little bit, right? Like, this is my way of sort of giving back in a way.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Yeah. Uh, Rich, I had a question uh off top. I want to hear your answer. Do you ever feel like the invisible pressure that you owe your parents for everything they've done for you and everything they sacrificed? Have you ever felt that feeling of an invisible pressure?

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Hell yeah. That shit is not invisible, bro. That shit is like in fine print.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Not with my mom. She she's gonna remind me.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

That shit is in fucking 78 italic font. Not invisible. Why not invisible? Well, I mean, for starters, my mom definitely makes it apparent that, like, hey, you know, you're you're doing much better than the rest of the family. But I feel like I carry my own guilt that I see my mom in like the apartment that we grew up in. She has like a rent-controlled apartment in the same neighborhood we grew up in. We've she's been in that apartment for over 30 years, and here I am in like owning a house for myself, right? Which is great. Like, I I I love what I've been able to accomplish for myself. However, I feel like under different circumstances, if I had more, I would get her out of that living situation and put her in a house or a bigger apartment, you know, or or something that, you know, she she has ample space to feel like, you know, she could walk around and she has some a nice living situation. I'm not in the liberty to do that, but I carry that guilt that I can't do that yet, right? And I feel like she deserves it, bro. Like the woman raised three boys by herself and she sacrificed so much. And did she get everything right? No. Did she try her best with the resources she had at hand? Yes. And I'd be a fool as her son, as her prized joy, not to acknowledge that this woman has sacrificed so much. Bro, this woman had me when she was 16 years old. Talk about a baby raising a baby, right? Like, what do you know at 16? You know, in this in the 80s, right? Yeah. I think to a degree, you have to have sympathy with your family, with your parents, understand the sacrifices, like really zoom in and be like, damn, what was your situation like when I was like one year old, right? Like, what was the the world view? What was the economy like? What were what were your circumstances? What opportunities did you actually have available to you? And I think once you're able to empathize what your parents went through, it helps you bridge the gap between where you are and where they have been and where they currently are. And I think that's your responsibility as a young man in the family dynamic to help bridge that gap and just let them know, like, hey, listen, I can't do certain things, but I'll I'll do the most that I can. I'll I'll try the best that I can to help you out in any given situation.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

Yeah, I mean, if you're the son of an immigrant family and you feel conflicted about the progress you're making in your life, I just want to say you're not a bad son for wanting better for yourself. Because in some strange way, that's what your parents wanted for you. Now, if they guilt you after you succeeded, then the burden is on them. You have to be proud of what you've accomplished. You're not a bad person, Rich. For having a home. Isn't that what the American dream is? Isn't that what immigrant parents come from their homeland into the United States for? One has to assume that one leaves homeland to come to the US because they're seeking something different. Maybe they can't accomplish the full goal in their lifetime, but it's all about a baton pass, and they pass the baton to you. So from me to you, Rich, as a friend, I don't think anyone should feel bad for the progress they made with the opportunities that they were given. I think that issue is the conflict. You know, we've mentioned it on the show before. It's survivor's guilt. There's no better phrase than that. It's survivor's guilt. It's almost like you have reaped the benefits of what someone else sacrificed, but you have to live in the guilt because the other person doesn't necessarily get everything that you have. I don't I want you to know you shouldn't feel bad about that. Like straight up.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Yeah, no, no, no, that's real. And I think one of the ways that you sort of find a way to honor your parents is just not continue. If we're using the analogy of passing the baton and the baton has been passed to you, like don't use that opportunity to not do better for yourself or do the most for yourself that has been done within the entire family, right? Like if you take the baton and you're suffering and you're going through shit and you're in this survival environment, like you didn't break the cycle. You're going through the same struggles that your parents have gone through. So was the sacrifice worth it? They sacrificed to get to this country to give you a better opportunity, and you don't take advantage of that opportunity, you don't go to college, you don't try to get a high-paying job, you don't try to build a business, you don't try to build something significant for yourself. Like that to me is unacceptable. So, like when you reap the benefits of that opportunity, you could live with survival's guilt. But even deeper than that, just like to me, not taking advantage of the opportunity that your parents have laid for you, even if it means you gotta steal their tax forms to do it, like to me is unacceptable.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

Rich, this topic is insanely relatable because I'm rereading our stats in our show notes, and one-third of US children have at least one immigrant parent in their household. That's census 2024. So that's just two years ago. And we're not even going to mention undocumented. So what we're talking about is a mainstream issue. This is not like some niche topic we brought up. A lot of people are trying to survive and thrive, live their dream, live their truth, young people, big ambitions, cell phones in their hands, could see all these people succeeding and thriving online, which is fake, but everybody has big goals, big dreams. And you can almost feel this guilt that comes from your parents or your grandparents that are reminding you hey, don't forget about us. Hey, you have things to do for us. Hey, you got to take care of your little brother and sister. I got I got to work two jobs. It's a really nuanced issue, Rich. And I think about the Korean kids that are here, I think about Nigerian kids. I have some of my homies are from Pakistan. Like their parents are raising them very different than the traditional two-family household American family. And that shit comes with a whole different type of burden. So I want to make that very clear. This is a mainstream issue. So what we're unpacking here, Rich, can definitely help a lot of people out. And I just want them to know that they're heard and they're seen. And it is okay to feel a little anger towards your situation because your situation is one of many. And if you truly, truly want to succeed and make it to whatever the next stage of your life is, you have to take steps that are very clear in a direction. And you have to excuse people who don't understand what it is that you want. And you have to beg for forgiveness, man, because your life is your life. You have to live your life at a certain point. Your mother and father had their time and they had their life choices. Don't burden yourself with guilt for what they were not able to accomplish. Unfortunately, that's not your responsibility. I know it sounds crazy to say it out loud, but you have everything in front of you. You should put your best foot forward.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

No, I agree with you, Jess. I think that in that respect, when it comes to working on yourself, your growth, your journey, your ambitions, your goals, like you have to be a little bit selfish, bro. And you have to want more for yourself, right? Think about if you're not on the pursuit of your highest potential. How the hell can you go back and help your parents if you're not your best self? Exactly, bro. If you don't bring in the most income, if you don't have the the best opportunities, how do you go back and help? You don't, right? So there's a sacrifice that has to be made. It's like you could go to your parents, you could be like, listen, I could help you now. You want me to help you financially? Cool. I'll pause school, I'll help you financially. But just know I can help you 10 times more if you allow me to go down this different path where I'm giving you less money, but I'm putting myself through college. Right? At some point, I think you always gotta choose you and like you said, just beg for forgiveness after. But the choice should always be to put yourself first. I know it sounds crazy to say.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Listen, no, no, but but culturally, culturally, that word loyalty gets thrown around a lot. And if you are the child of immigrant parents and you do feel guilt for trying to do your own thing, just know loyalty is not staying stuck. It's not loyalty, it is becoming the evidence that you can escape and you can thrive and survive, and you can become whatever dream you can manifest any dream of the person that originally came here from their home country. Rich, ironically, I am dating a Mexican woman, and in the Mexican culture and tradition, they practice something called Día de los Muertos. It's a day of the dead. Have you ever seen the movie Coco, the Pixar movie? It's all about that. And my girl politely asked me, like, hey, I'm gonna set up a little table. We're gonna put up photos of anybody who's passed away. It's a beautiful tradition. I'm excited about adopting it. And she asked me to print out some pictures of my grandparents. And first of all, I couldn't find any pictures of my grandparents. But when I did, it took my mind into a crazy rabbit hole. And I can't believe we're doing this episode today because it kind of lined up. I just wanted to show you, Rich, a picture of my grandmother or my grandfather from my mother's side. And where it all started, Just. These people came from the home island of Puerto Rico, both of them. Yeah. To bring my mother and her 10 siblings to the United States. And the reason why I share that is because what did those people have in mind when they made their way over here? And what did my mom have in mind when she was a young kid? And what did my mom have in mind when she had me and my brother? Those questions I can't really answer. But I wanted to make that point clear for the young man watching and listening. Damn, I never even thought about it that way. That is why my parents came here because they wanted more. I am the dream that they sacrificed for. I take pride in that, man. I truly believe that my family's last name was meant for me to do as much as humanly possible while I'm on this planet. So I could take the same baton that these two beautiful people from my mother's side of the family, my grandparents, grandmother, and grandfather, they sacrificed a lot to come to the United States, move to the Bronx in New York so we can have an opportunity. And I feel like I'm not doing them right if I don't take that baton and run as fast as possible and run as far as possible to take the Duran last name and the Noel last name and pass it on to my kids so they can be much further from wherever they started. Now, you see how I reversed the guilt of being loyal? If someone tells you staying in the hood, stay here, don't grow, that's loyalty. That's cat. That's cat. I don't believe that. I believe running further, running faster, taking your family's last name, and whatever Rich is going to do for Jensen and whatever Jensen's gonna do for his kids, that to me is a tip of the cap to your mother and grandmother.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

No, beautifully said, Justin. I think that analogy of passing the baton is exactly how you should view this sort of generational transfer of opportunity, right? Is like you said, you are the opportunity, right? Your your parents went through survival to have one opportunity. That one opportunity is you. So you need to take that baton and make something of yourself so that you can benefit and ultimately the family benefits, right? Bro, my son told me the other day, he's like, Dad, you know what I'm gonna be driving at 18? I think it's pretty funny. But he goes, You know what I'm gonna be driving at 18? I said, What are you gonna be driving? He's like, Lamborghini. I was like, Oh, all right. I'm like, you better start saving for that Lamborghini. Love that.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

That's Rich's son right there. Love that.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

Yeah, by the way, like I think it's comical, right? But the fact that he's even dreaming about that at 14, having a Lamborghini at 18, it's like, go on, little man, dream. I don't know how you're gonna do it. I'll be rooting for you, but go ahead and dream on, you know, like the Aerosmith song, Dream On.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Hell yeah. Listen, Rich, I did want to share this story that I did see in a community note about immigrant parents, and I wanted your feedback very quickly. It's a young man. I will say his name is Dennis. Initials are DR. 30 years old, it's currently 30 years old, Nigerian, immigrant Nigerian, immigrant parents. Historically, always the family translator. Parents don't know English very well, always worked multiple jobs while going to college, would help his family out with money when he worked his side jobs, always did paperwork for his father, for his, you know, small business that he was running. And realized at the age of 30, after he met his girlfriend, for one year he's been with this girl. His girlfriends asked him to move in. They wanted to move in together. And she asked him, which is a fair question, how much do you have in savings? And he told her, hey, I have $5,000 in savings, but this savings is an emergency fund for my parents. He's conflicted and it started a whole conversation in the thread of what he should do with this 5k. His girlfriend is saying, Hey, why don't we put it into a fund together so we can have an emergency fund since we're moving in together, and he doesn't know how to tell his girlfriend that this is for his parents, or he doesn't know how to tell his parents that that money is not available anymore, and he wants to move in with this young lady. The way the story ended for him, as I kept reading it, was he wound up taking the 5,000 and just putting it into a group fund with his girlfriend that they live together, but his family cut him off and they haven't spoken to him in six months. And this is where the whole conversation started. And I thought I just wanted to put that in front of you. What would be your advice to this young man, that this Nigerian immigrant kid?

SPEAKER_00 55:44

Yeah, that's tough, Justin, especially if like the parents still live in Nigeria, right? Like they're expecting those monthly payments every month, you know. I would have probably handled that a little bit different, depending on my my family circumstances. He could have done half and half, right? Half to the girlfriend pot, half to the family, but I don't knock the individual who decided to choose him first, right? Like ultimately, you're going to be building a life with this woman and individual. And you guys need to be okay in order for you to be able to be in a position for you to help out your parents or continue to help out your parents, right? This is exactly the selfishness that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

It's like by the way, the word selfish feels aggressive, but really think about it. Our listener base is between the ages of 21 to 32, right? Like 10 years. Think about that young man and all the episodes we've done about how hard it is for these guys to get a girlfriend, let alone get a girl on a date. You think that guy's morals are not gonna fold like a fucking cheap canopy the minute a beautiful young lady says, Hey, I'd love to move in with you, but I just want to make sure we're financially stable. I definitely can't knock this guy, even though it was a tough situation. That's kind of why I brought it up.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Yeah, exactly. And you can't guilt yourself into feeling like you're not doing the right things. I think we're conflicted of like wanting to be adult, wanting to do the right things, wanting to feel like you're evolving as a man, right? And feeling like you're doing the right things as a son. But I think that's where the conflict comes. It's like, damn, I want to be a good son, right? And you feel like you have to do all these things to be a good son, right? But no, you don't.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

I mean, but think about it, Rich. If you were in that same situation and a beautiful young lady that you've been dating is like, let's move in together, and you want to move in, you want to leave your family's house. I don't see no other option for him. Yeah, you're right, he should have split it half and half. But what you know, you know how it goes, Rich. When you're swooning a woman, you're just meeting her, and she's like, wait, so all of your money goes to your family?

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Yeah. The best piece of advice I could give this young man is just always lead with transparency, whether it be with your parents, with your girlfriend, with your manager at work. Like, just be honest about your situation, bro. And if people can't respect that, then at least you can be at peace knowing, like, hey, I told you guys the truth. Hey, mom and dad, I can't give you guys a monthly allowance for a couple months while I get my bread right. Me and my girlfriend are moving in together. It's only temporary. As soon as I'm able to, I'll resume payments to you guys, right? But at the end of the day, transparency will always overcome any obstacles that that are sort of unforeseen.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

And like we said earlier, set boundaries, speak clearly. That's pretty much what you said. Set a boundary early. Hey, in 30 days, the water is gonna shut off on this. Sorry. Make this shake because I have to get my life going in the right direction. Rich, I just wanted to place emphasis on that because I do recognize, and we both recognize, how nuanced a lot of these issues are, because a lot of this is not happening by choice. A lot of it is happening by necessity. So a lot of these young guys are in these situations where it is the cultural thing to do to take care of your family. It is the cultural thing to do to stay close to your mom, don't move too far away. But at the end of the day, man, you got to do what's right for you in order to keep your life moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

Yeah, bro. You're not a trader for choosing your own life. You're not a trader, right? Like the best way that you can honor your family is by not continuing to struggle the way they've had to struggle. And like you said, just take the baton and take it as far as as you possibly can.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

Yeah, Rich.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

Um, I mean, I feel like we could talk about this one all day, but we might need a part two, part three, part four. Cause this this is a pain point, Justin. You know, I'd be lying to you if I said that we knew how to solve every nuanced little specific situation in every young man's life. Because, like you said, there's a lot of cultural norms that are a little bit outside of our experience, but this affects every young man, bro.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Yeah, I'm gonna leave a teaser right here for the next immigrant parents episode. And the teaser is the time my father cursed me out during a work meeting because I didn't remember his Netflix password for next episode. Till next time.