SPEAKER_00 0:02

I read a billionaire biography. There was something that he said in the book that I took away. And he said, the best advice I could give young people is that I'm 90 years old today, and I know that I'm on the end of my life. If I could have 20 more years to live in a 20-year-old body, I would give up all this money to have that. Today we are talking about male loneliness and why being broke and down bad is actually making you even more lonely. An overdrawn bank account doesn't just hit your bank account. Low-key is costing you your social life and you don't even notice it. Have you ever skipped out on a trip with the boys or a birthday weekend only because you were broke and then you got to watch it on IG stories or on the group chat? Oh, I know this feeling because I went through the exact same thing. And I have a story to share later on of how I ducked out on someone really important to me's birthday only because I didn't have $200 in my bank account. Another one we see a lot is have you ever told your boys, nah, bro, I'm locked in this weekend. I'm in founder mode, no time for the link ups. When the real answer you should have told your boys were, nah, bro, I'm actually broke. I have no money in my bank account. I don't have no bread, no funds to be going out right now. Rich, they say the most dangerous isolation is the kind that feels responsible. And, you know, this is a tricky episode about male loneliness and social isolation because we don't want to come down on the guy that's being socially responsible, financially responsible. But he's also letting his social life decay if he doesn't go out and enjoy himself. So we're hoping to give him some actionable advice on how not to spend too much money, but you know, keep your friends entertained, keep women entertained, keep your social life going. Rich, was there ever a time in your life where you were down bad, so bad that you missed out on something and you still think about it to this day?

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Yes, bro. Listen, I'm glad we're breaking this down, just because I feel like this is a nuance that affects a lot of young men. And it affected me in my late 20s, early 30s. I was stacking bread, bro. I was mashing out, working overtime, saving up for the ultimate goal of buying a house. And bro, every time my boys hit me up, yo, Rich, come out. We're going to a lounge. Nah, I'm good, bro. Hit me up next weekend. I'll let you know. Next weekend rolled around. Nah, man, I actually got to work overtime this week. The following week rolled around, I had another excuse. And it got to a point where they stopped hitting me up and stopped inviting me to places. And like you said, I would see them in my IG stories, you know, on TikTok, on YouTube, like having a blast, having fun. And I'm like, fuck, bro. Like, look at what I'm missing out on because I keep saying no, all because I want to keep stacking bread. And it's a weird nuance, right? Because on one end, you're being responsible. Like I thought I was being responsible. I'm saving money. I'm saving to buy a house. I'm focused. I'm responsible. But on the other end, I was slowly but surely like losing my friendships in the process.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yeah. When we were doing our research, they call it the locked-in lie. This lie that you keep telling your friends that you're locked in, but in all reality, you're popped. You don't have enough money to go out. And every time you go out, you put it on your credit card or you overdraft your debit card, or this is the big one, yo, I'll sell you later on, and you put it on the homie credit card. That's a tough life to live when you know you have no business being out and you need to stack bread. So, like you said earlier, Rich, there is a fine line in this episode. This is not a 101 social isolation episode. This is more about the detailed decisions you got to make when you're not doing too well financially, but you're building your future self, whether you're going to school or you're working two jobs, you're doing postmates, you're doing DoorDash, you got a side hustle and you're stacking bread slowly. You're trying to build that discipline to not always go out. And it's weird because if you listen to a few of our other episodes, you would think we're being hypocrites right now. Because we're telling this guy in this episode, no, go out, keep your social circle open, meet women, stay outside, don't be lost in your room in your head. But at the same time, we're telling them build a future for yourself, lock in, build a skill set, make money. There is a fine line that we have to thread in this episode, Rich. And I don't know how to unpack it yet, but I do want to be clear so we don't sound like hypocrites to the failures listener who's probably consumed a lot of our older episodes.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Being responsible has side effects. You know what I mean? Like there unfortunately, there's some negative consequences to being responsible sometimes. And I think that's what happens when you're the guy saving money and then missing out on the hanging out, the bro vacations, right? And I think it all comes down to really finding your flock and your group of friends that really understand where you currently at in life. Great point. If I'm the 60K a year guy person, I'm not going to make the decision to hang out with my 150k a year friends because I know that they're living a lifestyle that I cannot compete with, I cannot keep up with, and I cannot afford. So I'm not gonna want to hang out with those dudes because I'm not making that type of bread that they're making, right? And that's certainly one of the angles that we have to tackle too, Jess.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Rich, you hit a nerve. High school Justin loved kicking it with the drug dealers in the area that we lived. And if you're from where we're from, you know who we're talking about. These guys drove Benzes, they have beautiful cars, usually with their cars, they would go to hookah lounges or go to New York and they would pop out to little spots. They had a lot of beautiful women. They would go with beautiful women, they would link up together and go hang out with beautiful women. And I remember post-college being popped, not having any money in my pockets, straight rabbit ears, hanging out of my mom's house, scrapping together a few dollars from my side job at Pizza Hut or Whole Foods. This is me. I remember being in this mode. And when the homies who were living a different lifestyle, I would say that they were making way more than $150,000 a year, living an illegal lifestyle. And I was a social guy. I was always in the more popular side in high school. But when we graduated, I wasn't making as much money as them. And a lot of that high school clout didn't carry over into college because no one knew who I was. And these guys would go to these hookah lounges in New York. They would go up to Dykeman, hang out with some of the most beautiful women in Dykeman. And good old Justin had no business hanging out with these guys. But they enjoyed being around me so much that they would come pick me up. And I would be broke as a joke. Driving through the Lincoln Tunnel, hearing these guys talk about bottles that they were gonna buy, knowing a club promoter that they were gonna meet up front, putting $200 in the security guard's hand to get in the club. And then once they get in the club, they're ordering bottles, ordering hookah. Rich, this whole time, I'm living like Dave Chappelle in that movie where he got the money on the bottom left corner, and he can see every time someone spends money, how little money he has, to the point where I could see my night going into the negative. I'm in the red, and I haven't even gotten into the club. So just the way we framed up this episode, it reminded me, damn, I remember hanging out with drug dealers after high school. These were my friends, and their lifestyle was so much more different than my lifestyle because they had money, they had cash. They were making a lot of money, they were high earners, and I had no business hanging out with them, Rich. You better believe when that motherfucking check came, I became a ghost. I became an expert at leaving the club early just so they couldn't ask me how much I had in on the bottles because one, I don't drink, and two, I had no business being in the club in the first place. So that embarrassment that I would experience taught me I need to keep my ass at home.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Can you imagine going to the bar or the club or the lounge and grabbing bottles, fresh out the ice and pouring yourself a drink, knowing damn well you're not contributing to you know people like that? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I I know a lot of people like that and shameless too. Yeah. Like they show up, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I'll bring girls, right? Yeah, that's the value trade, right? It's like I'll bring girls. I don't I don't have any money, but I'll bring girls. You bring the money for the bottles, and that's like the even exchange.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

What are we saying here, Rich? Because we're gonna get into actionable advice and we're gonna break this down a little bit further, but I want you to summarize the headspace that the young man is in, Rich, because I believe that you've gone through a few periods in your life, especially when you experienced bankruptcy or you were saving for your home. Just talk through that mentality when you are in that mode of stacking bread and you can't be outside every weekend. What's the healthy balance for this guy? And what are we really trying to tell him?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yeah, listen, I mean, certainly when you lock in, you're sort of pushing people out of your orbit, right? Because you're locking in on a goal, task, you're building a startup, you're saving money for a house, you're saving money to pay down that. It could be various reasons why you're locking in and getting in the headspace where like you sort of push everyone around you away for a while while you tackle this one problem. I think what naturally ends up happening is that you sacrifice friendships, right? You sacrifice memories, experiences. And I think the healthy balance just is really being selective about when you do pop out. For instance, in today's age, when you go out with friends, if you're doing dinner drinks, maybe a movie, right? Easy $250 a night on the low end. Crazy. On the low end, right? Crazy, depending on how many drinks you have. So think about you doing that every Saturday for an entire month. Thousand dollars down the drain. That's the reality that some guys are are living in, right? It's like they want to be in the club, they want to be in the lounge, they want to be having all these dope experiences, but at the same time, if I gotta drop a thousand dollars a month on entertainment and to hang out with my friends, right? Like, that's not sustainable in long term. So the way I would advise like a young guy to reframe this is like, bro, do that once. Why do you have to do that four times? Go out one Saturday a month or every other, but try to be crafty about ways that you can go out and not spend that much money, yeah. Especially in the dating world, bro. And we definitely got to touch on dating because I feel like there you try to do the most because you're trying to impress the woman and ultimately you're trying to, you know, get her to sleep with you. So you're you're prone to overspend to appear flashy to attract this woman. But guess what, Jess? If you're really being frugal and you're really trying to save money, some museums are free, some national parks are free. A stroll around Central Park doesn't cost you a goddamn thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Hell nah. Petting a little dog, throwing a little bread at some ducks. Yeah, just just don't go on the horse and carriage ride or some crazy stuff. A hike. I'm out here in LA. You could just hit a hike, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yes, bro. Yeah. A hike, coffee is not gonna run you, you know, a hundred dollars.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

You know, there's a lot of like Rich. You know what's crazy? I I actually just thought about this. Before I got into my relationship with my lady, I was obviously in LA, very single, looking for friends, you know, building my network out here. And even though back home, New York and New Jersey, I have a lot of friends. Coming out here was a very sobering experience for me. It felt like I was back in high school for the first time. And I didn't really know a lot of people. So I can relate to the guy that has to do just weird shit. You got to pop out to things that you don't even know if they're gonna be good or not, fun or not, how much money you're gonna spend, just because you want to keep that social circle going. You want to meet people so you can meet people, so you can meet women, and you can always be in the mix. You cannot score a goal if you're not standing on the field, and you definitely can't score a goal if you're not standing by the net. So, what you just said, Rich, made me think of that. You have to be outside if you want to solve your problems. Even if you want to take a break from staring at three monitors all day or building your business, we do believe the men that follow Failures Podcasts are men that be getting to the chicken. They be working hard, they be busting the ass. They want to build that future self. So they got to put in the work today. That's what this is all about. Don't get it fucked up. We know who our viewer is, but there is something about locking in a little too much where you start losing social skills. It's called atrophy. If you don't use it, you lose it. It's like speaking a language. It's like a skill. If you're a coder and you don't code for five or six years, you lose the skill. So the same thing happens with friendships. If you don't invest in these friendships, you lose them. If you don't invest in going out with your friends and flirting with women, you lose that skill. These things take time. So what Rich and I are saying is that you might be going out one-fourth of the time. So for every four invites, you say no three times, but maybe you pop out one time and you're saving 75% of the money you would have spent back in the day. But living in LA taught me something. You have to pop out if you want to build a social circle. And I do remember a time where I was invited by one of my friends who was in the tech space. And at the time, run clubs were really big. Hiking clubs were really big. And he was telling me, yo, this is a great way to meet women because you don't have to spend a lot of money. So you already know I was in because it gave me something to do in the morning or afternoon, and I could work at night. Anyway, long story short, I start getting involved in the run clubs, hiking clubs. And after a while, you start realizing this shit is a Ponzi scheme because you may link up with the run club or the hike club for free. But what they do is they get brunch after that. And then when they get brunch, everybody is spending hundreds of dollars on drinks, food, and then after that, you get dressed and you go out with that same run club community. So something as innocent as a run club could turn into a $1,000 night out if you don't monitor it. But Rich, you had said something off air in our prep meeting that I think you should mention here. If I cut that day into thirds, the run club link up at 12 to 3, the drinks at the bar from three to six, go home, shower, pop out, link up with everybody at, I don't know, a local lounge from midnight to 4 a.m. Then get dinner after. You could cut the whole back end of the day off and just link up for the free and just do the run club and the bar. This is a tactic that Rich and I were discussing off air. You don't always got to spend the most money to pop out.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Yeah, bro. That's great advice and is strategy at the end of the day. You got to get crafty about this shit. And you know, just one of the nuances that I feel like you don't really realize that you're sacrificing is just the network that you could build by going out and attending a pop-out, right? Like or hang out. Let's say, for example, you're someone who is saving up to buy a house, right? But you go out to the bar with your friends and you meet a mortgage lender at the bar, a realtor at the bar, someone who does titles that could put you on game, someone who does like home insurance that could put you on game, like, oh shit, you're saving up for a house. Well, look, I do this. Here's my business card. And now you only build that relationship where you got uh someone that you can add to your network because you went to the bar with the homies, right? I mean, I don't know if you want to share, but there was a gentleman you met at the airport that you guys just happen to have a mutual conversation about like self-help and and men's mental health and wellness and things like that. And that sparked a whole separate conversation that we had on the business end. And I just think it's interesting how when you do make the conscious decision to show up to places, you naturally build relationships and friendships than you wouldn't have made otherwise if you just stay home all the time.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Yeah, real relationships are built and cemented in real life. So the story that Rich is saying was Rich and I are a little older. Rich is 38, I'm 40 years old. We do understand the value of going out and taking the product that you built in your home on your 90-day mission, social isolation, not talking to anybody, the billionaire pursue, the founder mode, locked in three months straight, no going outside, straight DoorDash to the crib. We're not mad at you for doing that. Three months, six months locked in could change your whole life. What Rich and I are saying is once you build a case study, once you build a beta model, once you build a sample of what you're doing in real life, 3D, you have to take it into the real world and show people in real life and build relationships and network in real life. Don't let the IRL part go over your head. You can build in private, tinker in private, but you have to take this product into the real world. And when we say the product, we're giving a little bit of uh grace to the guy who wants to build something in private. Do your thing. If you want to get muscular, you want to go to the gym, you want to lose weight in private, so you can really lock in on a task. We're never gonna be against that. But every now and then you got to pop out and show people. Hey, look what I look like. Hey, look at this business I built. And what Rich is saying is we built Failures Podcast a year and a half ago. We have a case study. It's not doing millions of views per episode, but we had enough of a proof of concept that I ran into a dude who was wearing a sweater that said alive. When I saw his sweater at the airport, I was actually on a work trip to Miami. When I saw his sweater, I was like, damn, alive. What could that mean? Rich and I are actively creating a media company and a business in the male self-help space. This was a young guy, definitely younger than 24 years old. So I asked him, what's the sweater about? And he was like, oh, this is a company I'm working on. I developed an app that helps people with their health and understanding their health markers. We bonded. That relationship turned into a call between Rich and I. I don't want to say his name, but if he is watching, shout out to him. But if Rich and I didn't lock in for a year and a half and create a solid proof of concept, we really would have had nothing to talk about. So again, this is a 400-level failures episode where we're saying you have to lock in, do the work, build in private, but you have to pop out and show yourself in public if you really want to connect the dot and bring the whole thing full circle. You can't have one without the other. Don't allow social isolation to be the reason why you don't get any blessings from what you build in private.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yes, bro. And listen, why you're building, if you feel like you're sacrificing relationships because you're not going out and you're not spending money and you're missing out on all these things, bro, there is a bunch of shit that is free. Going to play basketball with the homies is free. Going out for a walk, inviting the homies over to the crib to watch the game and buying a bag of popcorn is like a very low-cost way to just hang out.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah, yeah, bro. And by the way, guy friends, man, I know I know things are more expensive now. Definitely way more expensive than they were when we would hang out rich. But if nobody's trying to flex on social media, having a good group of guy friends, you go play basketball with them, you could go watch the football games at somebody's house, you bring some chips, you bring some wok, you bring a few beers, like it's not that deep. You don't gotta blow a bag to go out and socialize.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Yeah, play some Call of Duty. Yeah, no, you're right. There's a bunch of shit that you could do. That low friction, you're not spending money, you're not blowing the bank, right? But you still harness those relationships and maintain those friendships that you have.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Rich, there is a funny ass stat that I saw, and it it says most males under the age of 28 lie to their friends when they say why they can't go out with them. 50% of them are saying they can't go out for a lie of a reason. But do you know the real reason why they can't go out? They can't afford it. That's 50% of men who decline plans to go hang out with their friends are declining because they can't afford it. So every time one of your boys tells you a bullshit. Excuse why he can't link up with you and the other guys is because he doesn't have the money. That in itself is the thesis of this entire episode, Rich. You don't have the money, so you can't socialize.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

And even worse than that, you don't have the money, so you can't go out on a date. That is a bigger problem. Because if you can't take a girl out on a date, and then you're wondering why you've been single for so many years, or you believe that no women find you attractive, like my man, you're not you're not in the arena. You're not in the field. You're hiding behind the dating apps, right? And that's like the most money that you spent is the monthly subscription on the dating app. But if you actually get a match and you have to take her out and you have no money, that's probably the root of part of your dating problems, too.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Yeah, Rich, I do feel bad for the guy that's still conflicted listening to this episode. He's like, wait, should I be grinding for a season or should I be going out? And I have a very simple framework for you to remember when you are stuck between, I don't have the money, I want to build a better future self, but I also want to go out and then keep my social life going. Here's the rule a season is a season for a reason. If you're in a season of stacking money, I commend you, I salute you. Stay in that season, lock in. But every season has an end date. So give yourself an end date. Give yourself a goal. Don't move it. Keep the goal, the goal, keep the date, the date. Stay in your season until you're out of your season. But don't turn founder mode, grind mode. I'm on my solopreneur journey into a perpetual cycle of social isolation. Do not turn social isolation into your identity. That is the trap. Do not turn being in a season in a mode into your identity. That is the trap. Keep that in mind. Only you know why you're not going out. And if you're not going out because you're popped and you got no money, that's fine. Stack your bread. But if you're not working to stack your bread and then you're actually not stacking your fucking bread, then you're lying to yourself and the world is passing you by. That is a lose lose. That is the clear message to the guy listening to this episode right now, thinking, well, these guys sound like fucking hypocrites because they're saying I gotta save money, but they're also telling me I gotta go out. We didn't say that. We're saying you're letting social isolation define you and you're using grinding as a crutch.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, bro. And listen, and and once you do get the money and you're ready to hang out, and you look around and none of your boys are around anymore, like you lost all your friends, like that is worst case scenario. You never took the time to maintain those relationships. Now you got the money, right? Like you gave yourself an end date, you saved the 50, 60k that you wanted to save, and you look around, you're like, damn, I have no one to spend this money on. Like, or my friend group that used to travel no longer travel anymore. Like, I missed that whole window of like the bros traveling um to different parts of the world. So that's another poison that happens, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Rich, there's something that I jotted down and I do want to share with our community because I know you can relate to this. The arrival fallacy. The arrival fallacy is this idea that you're gonna work really hard, you're gonna lock in, you're gonna save money, you're gonna get fit, you're gonna go on vacation, you're gonna isolate yourself for two years, and you're gonna start this thing, you're gonna build this thing, you're gonna get this thing, right? The arrival fallacy is once you get to the top of the mountain, the sun is gonna shine brighter than ever, all your life problems are gonna go away, everyone's gonna love you. You're never gonna want any other desire ever again. It's a fallacy because it's a lie. Every time you think you're getting to the top of a mountain, you're actually at the side of the mountain. And there's more mountain. There's always more mountain, there's always more things you're gonna want. Desire is a treadmill. You're just gonna stay on it forever. If you have the curse of somebody that is hungry and you're always aspirational, you're always motivated, you want more, it's a fallacy, the arrival fallacy. Every time you get to the top, it's not the top. There's always more. And every time you believe that if I could just get that strawberry that's at the top of that branch, I know it's gonna be the sweetest, best strawberry ever. The truth is, it's never as sweet as you think it's going to be. And I know this is something that I shouldn't be sharing with our community because we want them to stay motivated. But what I'm trying to help them with, Rich, is even when you're on vacation, your mind is still going to be running and you saved up for a whole year to go on vacation. You planned every day out for that vacation. You and your girl got matching outfits for the flight for that vacation. And the strawberry is never as sweet as you think it's gonna be. The vacation is never as peaceful as you think it's gonna be, and that's just life. So when you put all your effort, work, identity, all your value into one goal, it's a trap because the goal is never gonna free you of these bigger problems you might have in your life. And that's one thing I wanted to make sure I addressed before we got to the end of this episode because that guy who is locked in, founder mode, the billionaire treadmill that he's on, even when you get there, it's not gonna be as happy as you think you are.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Yeah, listen, and I think everything you do has to be rooted in reality, right? I feel like oftentimes the dude who do save up for that one vacation, they're using all the money that they saved up for that one vacation so that they can get all the pictures off, so that they can post it on Instagram, so that they can create this narrative and social media identity that they're cool, they're enjoying life, like this is how I'm living these days. That is not the truth, my man. The truth is you spent every dollar that you had to go on this one trip just to get these photos, right? And then you gotta go back home and face the reality that you're back to zero again. And I hate that trap for these young guys just because that's not rooted in reality. I think the wiser reframe is be honest with yourself, bro. That's the best thing you could do. Be honest about where you currently at. For example, if I know that I have $500 in my bank account, bro, I don't even want to match with the 10. Because I know that's my 500 in that one date. You know what I'm saying? That's fucked up, bro. But think about it, you can't afford her. So why would you go out and try to take someone that attractive out on a date? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

And the three dates she's been on before you probably were with guys that can't afford her.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Yes, bro. But I know I know we're laughing, but my point is you have to operate and live your life with things that have you closer rooted to reality, to your current circumstances, right? There could be a girl out there for you, bro, that is fine with the $20 you spent at Aldi's to buy all these like little sandwiches and appetizers and go to the park on a picnic. Yeah. And that whole date costs you $20, $25.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yeah, listen, stay within your weight class. That's what we're just saying. Like, if you don't have it yet, try to find friends and women that are gonna be realistic about where you're at. The problem is social media just pulls people in a direction that's like, damn, all girls are only gonna fuck with me if insert cope. Yeah, the cope would be, damn, I have to make this much money. I have to take them to these restaurants. I have to be honest with you. I am someone that's been blessed with the ability to communicate. This came from my mom and dad. A lot of this wasn't even like me learning how to do it. Sometimes social skills will take you a little further than money would when shit hits the fan and you're around people in real life. So you don't even know. If you have that capability, use it to your advantage. For every conversation and opportunity that you can make a girl feel like, damn, I like this guy's confidence, I like this guy's energy, that can take you a lot further than just spending $1,000 on a night out. I'm not saying it's everything. Women do expect to be treated, women do expect to be taken care of. But I'm saying when you're younger and you are in competition with guys that don't have a lot of money, then your social skills can take you a lot further. What happens is there's atrophy. If you don't go out and you stay home all day, you kind of lose the ability to speak to women, you kind of lose the ability to flirt, you kind of lose the ability to socialize and build that social network of friends that can bring more women around you. So there's a trade-off there. You have to be very smart about hey, I don't have this much money, but I can't make up in other ways. And you want to stay within your weight class. That's kind of what we're just trying to say. Another thing I wanted to mention is I read a billionaire biography. It was one of the more boring books I've ever read, but there was something that he said in the book that I took away. Manns was 90 years old. And he said, the best advice I could give young people is that I'm 90 years old today, and I know that I'm on the end of my life. If I could have 20 more years to live in a 20-year-old body, I would give up all this money to have that. So anyone that envies me, the billionaire, should know that I envy them if they're young, because what I am rich in money, the young man is rich in time. They are a billionaire in hours, they are a billionaire in years because they have the time to go and live a life that is fruitful, that is enjoyable, that they have the potential to make money for themselves. Don't get tricked with money. Money is not an end goal. Money is literally a physical object that proves you made it. You can exchange it for things. It's what you do with those things that create happiness. It's the value that you give those things that create happiness. That billionaire put me in the proper headspace just by reading his book. I'm thinking to myself, damn, I feel old. I'm 40 years old. But what he told me was, my man, I'm 90. You have 50 more years to live. What you don't have in my money, I would trade you in time. So just keep that in mind. When you're on your journey, just know anyone that makes real money, anyone that has a happy life doing what they love, it usually takes time. Don't sacrifice all that time trying to figure it out in six months, nine months, a year. Don't ruin your social life. Don't decay your social circle. Don't make yourself an introvert that doesn't know how to socialize because you stay home all day because you're on a pursuit of money. Because at the end of the day, money is just a means to an end. You're gonna trade that money for friends at some point, you're gonna trade that money for girls at some point. And when you don't have the skills to make real friends or to have women love you just off the strength of who you are, you'll pay a tax on all of it. You'll pay women to be with you, you'll pay men to hang out with you. Not illegally, but somehow you won't end up paying for it. So don't forget that if you are under the age of 25, you are a billionaire in time. Maybe not a billionaire in money, but you're a billionaire in time.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Oh, that's a tough one, Jess. Because, like, what would you say to the guy that's like, I hear you, I have been making it all about the money, but I need money to go to the concert with my friends. I need money to go on vacation, you know, with the boys, right? Like everything costs money. Which by the way, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Like, yeah, well, the truth is money is just a piece of paper that is a means to an end. Meaning, what do you do with your money, Rich? I could ask you that right now. What do you do with your money? You pay your mortgage, I'm sure your house is damn near paid off already. You pay your car note, I'm sure your car is either paid off or it's damn near paid off. You create experiences for the woman that you love and your kids, right? But the means to an end is at the end of paying off your car note, is so you can travel around without having to walk everywhere. So you're paying for convenience. You give your woman beautiful experiences for what? To show her that you love her, you appreciate her, and you want to be her protector. The money is just a mechanism to get the thing. Your kids, you want to take care of your kids. You want them to be healthy, you want them to be happy, you want them to be protected. But more times than none, from what I understand, when you have kids, you give them things to be like, look how much daddy loves you. I love you. I'm gonna give you something. But the money is just transactional. I know broke people that are truly happy because they have safety, love, happiness, and they're confident in their lives. So don't let the money fool you. It's a means to an end. So for the younger guy, sorry to go a little old on our listeners, for the younger guy, going to that festival is just an opportunity for you to be around guy friends who prove that you're not alone and they're connected to women that could potentially take care of this problem that you have of beating your meat all night in your room alone. This is a means to an end. So you don't need a million dollars to solve that problem. You need a few tens of thousands of dollars per year to solve that problem. And while you're stacking up for later, when you do have a family, you need emergency funds. Don't try to be a billionaire today in order to solve a thousand dollar problem, which is just having a beautiful girl notice you exist. That is really overshooting your goal. You're trying to get a Ferrari when all you really gotta do is say hello, my name is Justin. You look great, or hey, my name is Justin. I didn't know you came to the same gym as me. I think I've met you before. Bro, you don't need a million dollars to do that. I think everybody's just looking at a dollar as a way to get what they want. And that's friendships, validation, be a part of a community, and most importantly, Rich, not be lonely and alone anymore. You don't need money for that. Yeah, you need money for a lot of things, and it'll definitely help you not feel insecure. I know a lot of broke motherfuckers who have solved these problems just by showing up, being charismatic, and trusting themselves and having social skills. So don't confuse one for the other. I promise you. I know a lot of motherfuckers who make a lot of money, buy a lot of cars, and they go home alone every night. Why? Because they stop spending money. Don't let the money be the faucet to solve your problem for happiness. You can develop all those skills by yourself. How do we know, Rich? We've been broke for a majority of our lives. Yeah. I made you as a friend by being broke. I met every woman before the young lady that I'm with now. I was broke. So you can't tell me you can't be broke and have a good life. Money does help. Don't get it fucked up. Money does help. I'm not gonna say that.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Money helps. But let me tell you something. I overly invested in dating while I was broke. You know why, bro? It was extremely this is a true story. Yeah, it is extremely important for me that whatever girl I ended up with loved me for me, where I'm at, where I'm currently at. No matter how much is in the bank account, no matter what car I'm driving, no matter what my home living situation is. That was extremely important to me. Bro, I always knew I was gonna get to the money. I always knew I was gonna get to the bag. The thing that I wasn't sure about was is my significant other going to love me for me or for what I have. That is the part that I never knew the solution to. And fortunately, I met my girl in a little hybrid situation where like I had money, but I'm not, you know, a millionaire or whatever. But the qualities that I love about her is that I know she's not with me for money, bro. I know it. I made a conscious decision to find a woman that wouldn't only love me for what I have or how much money I have, right? But you only do that, you only derive at that situation when you're dating when you have a little less. I truly feel that when you don't have that much money and you find your match, that's who you should be with. That is a person that loves you for you and not for what you have.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

What you really want is friendship. What you really want is companionship. What you really want is a beautiful young lady to look at you and say, damn, you're the best thing that ever happened to me. You don't want money. You just want companionship. That's what I'm saying. So don't mix one for two. Yes, money is a road to get you these things. But just understand that if you have a hole in your body that is so deep that you have to fill it with money, your whole world is going to be about the exchange of money. Don't let that be the reason why you work so hard. And that is the balance between working hard and then popping out and showing your value to the people you love because your intrinsic value to them goes beyond a dollar bill. That is a 700-level course of information for the young man sitting at home thinking, well, they'll see when I become a millionaire. My guy, we want you to be a millionaire. Go be a fucking billionaire, create the next Starlink. But what we're telling you is, if you have no charisma and you're not fun to be around, that doesn't change when you get rich. It actually gets worse.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

You can't buy charisma, you can't buy wittiness, you can't buy charm, you can't buy, you know, being entertaining, charismatic, like these are just all personality traits that you gain by exercising that social muscle.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Rich, you've said this before. Your fear would be if I'm the guy who always comes with food catering and bottles, and I invite people to my house and I treat them, you would hate the idea that if you stop doing food catering and you stop buying bottles and you stop sending people Ubers to come to your house just so they could enjoy the MMA fight with you. Wouldn't your greatest fear be like if some if you ask somebody like, yo, do you just want to come over? I don't really have a lot here, but pull up and they're like, oh, whatever happened to the car service? What happened to the catering food? What happened to the bottles and the beers and the unlimited drinks? You've made the experience with you about something totally different. And I know we've discussed this: the fear of not being needed, the fear of not being wanted because you can't provide.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Yeah. Or the opposite, right? It's like you achieved all your goals, you've gotten to the highest mountaintop, and then you're looking back down and you're like, damn, there's no one here next to me. Who can I share this with? Like, who's my partner? Who's real? Who's not, who's fake, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Rich, I don't enjoy making our listeners feel like I don't share their life experiences. But you know what I do for a living. I literally work with some of the biggest entertainers in the world. Period. These are people that have you set your life goals up at 18 years old, this is precisely where you want to be when you're in your 30s. You want to be a rock star. You want to stand on stages, hundreds of thousands of people screaming your name, know every lyric to every one of your songs. You want to be like on the top of the world, a three-dimensional world. Even those people have voids in their heart, holes in their heart. And they try to fill it with overcompensation of other things. The saddest thing to your point, Rich, is to realize damn, are these people around me because of money? Because of what I provide? I'll be honest with you. The answer for most of those guys is yes, but you've done so well for yourself, you can't even distinguish the two. This is why for high-earning individuals, divorce is the biggest threat. This is why for high-earning individuals, schemes and scams from the people closest to you trying to run plays through your wealth is the biggest threat. This whole episode pivoted into something else that is a very high-level conversation. But I want to go back to the beginning. Social isolation is usually done by choice, especially if you were once in high school and you had a small group of friends, especially if you were in college and you had a small group of friends. You've voluntarily opted out of every invite. Don't let that go over your head. Really think about it. And you're saying I'm sacrificing A to get B. But the truth is, B, the money and the wealth and the status and the fame is just a weird way to get back to A, which is friends, companionship, a social circle, people who love you for you. But here's the truth you're not gonna know until you find out for yourself. That's what wisdom is. You have to find out for yourself. Rich, I'm sure there's a million things you could tell your son hey, I know how this. Is going to play out for you. He has to find out for himself. So this is the part of the show where we say, you know what? Go and do what you got to do. I really hope you make millions of dollars. But the strawberry is never as sweet as you think it's going to be when you've dedicated your whole life to it. That's something I know for sure.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Yeah. When you've dedicated your whole life to it and you shut everyone else out. Like that is the core thesis of this episode, right? It's like you could do things in parallel. I think it all comes down to value. Like, what do you value? Like, certainly if you're uh a tech founder, right? Or if you're someone saving money for a house, etc., you're putting a lot of energy towards this one goal, right? Like you're mashing out, you're spending all your time towards this one goal, and you're closing off your family and friends. And I believe what we're saying is you can do these things in parallel. And even if you do lack the funds currently, there are other things that you can do outside of spending money to still maintain those friendships and those relationships that you have with family and friends, right? Like it doesn't need to be one or the other. I think that's what happens with these guys that are like, oh, I'm building in stealth and I'm on tech founder mode and I'm in my room coding for like eight to ten hours a day, and I don't talk to the world, and I'm stoic, and like I'm in my own bubble. They define themselves through their pain. There's no honor in that, Jess. There's no honor in that when you haven't spoken to your mom for six months. There's no honor in that when you haven't spoken to your best friend in 10 months. And then when you do get the goal, when you launch the app or sell the website or e-commerce store that you build for millions of dollars, and you turn to the people you love, like, hey, look what I just accomplished. And they're like, bro, we haven't heard from you in two years. Like, where you been? You know what I mean? Like, that's cool and all. And I'm glad you succeeded and you have all this money, but like you missed five birthday parties, you know, from the family. Like you miss Betty's wedding. Yeah. Like you can't get those moments back, Jess. You can't get them back. So that's my cautionary tale, bro. It's just understand when you're in this grind mode what you're sacrificing on the other end.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Rich, there's two more things before we finish the episode that I think are important to address. And you just hit one of them that I thought was crucial. You have to adapt, but not disappear. That is the trick to maintaining a friendship, a friend group, or access to women who can solve a lot of the pain in your life, which is being alone. So you have to adapt, not disappear. Budgeting is just a tool to allow you to be smart with your money. Being financially responsible or being an entrepreneur and building your own company is one of the best things you can do as a young man because you have a lot of time to take risk, fail, and try again. But this is not an excuse to vanish from the earth. It's not an excuse to disappear from all the things that could make you happy on a Saturday for two hours, which is just laughing with your boys about a fun time you had a year or two ago, or linking up with a girl that you've been dying to talk to, but you've been so busy because you've been working. These are the beautiful things of life that can happen simultaneously, Rich. You said you can do things in parallel. We're not these machines that can only isolate on one thing. It's actually impossible to focus on one thing for 12 hours a day, seven days a week. So you need these little outlets. This message is for the overachiever that feels lonely. Don't make these things an excuse to vanish from the earth. It's not healthy. It's not going to help you in the long run.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

Yeah, bro. Understand what you value most, right? Understand what matters to you at the end of the day. For example, just if somebody told me, hey, Rich, I'm going to give you $20,000, but you can't talk to your brother in the next 12 months. I would say, no, keep the money. And I'd rather keep that relationship with my brother. I'd rather be able to call my brother whenever I need him, whenever I need a vent about something, because I value that relationship way more than I value any amount of money. You value a peace of mind. Yeah. Because you can have the bag, but you could feel crazy. Bro, peace, a peace of mind is priceless, Justin. You can't put any amount of monetary price on a peace of mind.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

The other thing I wanted to mention before we go, Rich, and this might be the most important message to the young man who is suffering in silence, is isolated, and feels alone in this world, but they're working really hard to achieve their goals. There are no gold medals for people who voluntarily decide to suffer and run the marathon of life. If your goal is so extreme that you have to isolate yourself seven days a week, cut off everybody, I admire you. That's how the winners win. I've never read a book on anybody successful that is a 1% human, an Olympian gold medalist, a 1% billionaire that didn't lock in and sacrifice everything in order to achieve their goal. But when you sign up for the marathon of life and you want to be a one-of-one human, what you don't get to do is complain about it the whole time. Nobody is handing out gold medals for people who voluntarily suffer. This is something that has to be locked in for this guy because you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't sign up for the marathon and always stop and complain that you got blisters or it's too hot out, or I'm not getting enough attention and energy for what I'm doing. Can't you see I'm trying hard? Nah nah, my boy. That's not how this works. When you sign up for the marathon, you signed up for the marathon. Everybody else shouldn't have to suffer because you're suffering.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Yeah, man. Listen, run the marathon, mash out, work hard, you know, put in the hours that it takes for you to accomplish your goals and your dreams. But what we're saying is you don't have to disappear in the process. That's simple, bro.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Yeah. Don't lose yourself. Don't lose yourself trying to earn a bag. You can get a bag and also have some friends. Don't let the internet fool you. Don't let the internet fool you. A lot of these lonely motherfuckers is teaching you how to be more lonely. That is not the play. Rich and I make decent money. We're not billionaires yet. But we find ways to socialize and get to the money. Failures Podcast is a case study. Rich and I are lifelong friends. I value my relationship with him outside of all the money plays we've ran together. But you know what? Our bond and our friendship has led us into a world of two guys that are in their late 30s, early 40s that have something that you can't get if you don't put time and energy into it. And that's trust and a solid friendship. You can't buy that, Rich. You cannot buy that.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Man, well said, Just there you have it, man. Failures podcast. We out.